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High-tech dumpster dive
By claude, Section Diaries Posted on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 07:44:37 PM MST
Help me identifying some of this.

Today was a big day. The company I work for (printing shop) decided to clear out the old stuff that's been piling up in the attic for 10 years now. While this is not a big company, the IT dept was constantly updated so the old stuff went up.
About 7 Macintosh 6500, 9500, AppleWriter/Epson/HP printers, 21"/17"/15" monitors, one Linotype RIP, one Linotype imagesetter, only good old stuff ... So I delved in, scrounging nearly 100Kg of power supplies, circuit boards, motors, transformers, and one HUGE motor that looked like gold to me.

It had eight wires out, and it was the biggest stepper motor I have seen so far.
Took it home and dismantled it a bit. To my dissapointment the actual motor is only 1/3rd of its size. The rest is just metal. Heavy as hell, about 10kg full metal. Some magic bearing inside that keeps spinning the massive flywheel for minutes.

This motor was used to spin this hexagonal mirror and reflect the laser beam that was writing the photo-sensitive film. I guess the giant flywheel was for constant rpm.

The bad part is that the shaft is part of the big thing, taking the motor apart leaved me without the shaft or bearings. I could order that to be custom made but only if you think it's worth the trouble.

Taking the lid apart I found one tacho disk and the ring magnets on a circular armature. The 6 coils are wired with thick wire (about 1mm) and I presume the 8 wires are the coil ends.

The question is - is this worth the trouble of making a custom shaft and bearings?
Another goodie was the laser unit. This is a class IIIa red laser tube powered from a He-Ne Laser power supply. Operating on 12VDC, it takes about 1 Amp to fire the tube.

I was thinking about using the power supply to light up a fluorescent tube. I wonder, is this wise? The 2700V output made me wonder.
The wide assortment stepper and PM motors will sure come in handy for small projects. Many of them have gear-down boxes. There were also two old floppy units that I took apart for those cute little steppers.

As for now, I'll go on scrounging the components off the circuit boards. This is fun indeed. Taking apart 1995-labeled power supplies is like opening a giftbox.
Claude

High-tech dumpster dive | 22 comments (22 topical)

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by fungus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:10:44 PM MST

Very nice stuff!
I cant see any downsides to the big flywheel, maybe just leave it on and use it with that? Try spinning it at a known speed and see what voltage you get.

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by claude on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:19:18 PM MST

If you were to lift that big thing with your hands, you would surely feel the downside. The motor is made of aluminium and it's less than a third of that thing's weight. I'll ask a lathe worker to try and make me a new shaft. If the motor doesn't put out much power I still have place to glue small neo's instead of the original magnet ring. Hmm...

[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by ghurd on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 03:49:39 PM MST

I would try the large motor like it is before considering making a new shaft.

Don't forget the degaussing coils in the monitors!
Might be able to rewind the motor with smaller wire from the monitors.

Anybody have any idea why 8 wires?
G-
Ghurd.info

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by claude on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:53:44 AM MST

Hi Glen!

There are 8 coils. Maybe those are the coil ends. Or maybe not. I get strange readings. Three wires have 1.8 Ohms in between them and another three have 1.2KOhms in between them. The good news is that the coils are screwed inside the case, so if I'll get some fancy tool I'll be able to unscrew it and manually isolate coils.

I forgot the degaussing coils :-(

In fact I had no time at all, I had to move fast, the truck driver was waiting for me to finish. I wish I knew sooner, I literally hammered everything to take things apart.

Claude

[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by fungus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 04:09:22 PM MST

Maybe the large flywheel part can be dissassembled and just the bearings and shaft used, if it can be taken off?

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by claude on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:41:47 AM MST

Fungus, this is as far as one can go with dis-assembly. The flywheel is pressed onto the shaft. No visible bolts, no nothing. The outer case is casted in one piece. Everything looks like it's going to survive any power tool I can imagine.
To me it's a mystery why this very delicate piece of engieneering (The Linotype imagesetter) with so many sesitive parts (sensors/mirrors/reductions) needs something that looks like it's made for tanks. I am pretty sure this has on bearings at all. I dismantled something similar once (don't ask how, it was a full day cutting the case in half although that was way smaller than this one just to see the strangest thing - the shaft had no bearings just some conical holes for it, coated with some alien-looking stuff that featured no friction at all...

Claude

[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by blueyonder on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 06:07:08 PM MST

well i bet you were buzzing like a bee when you got all them bits back home.
just think . in terms of cash how much that stuff was worth new.
i bet most of it was in working order.
only now its obsolete.
so as you saved it from going to the big scrap yard.
and you got sum nice stepper motors aswell.
so for your performance at high-tec dumpster diving .
i will give you on a scale 1-10 . 8 POINTS.
but if you get the lazer to fire i will make that a nine..
now i think i am being a bit mean so will make that ten points.
yes claude that was a good dumpster dive you had.
its a ill wind that dos no good

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by claude on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:02:34 AM MST

Yes! I was buzzing like a bee... :-)) How do you know?

I had to leave behind one giant 860W power source that had like 10kg. The label said "84% efficiency" I am sorry now. I bet that thing had some really good stuff inside.

The laser fires no problem :-) I'm trying to find a use for it, one that's better than driving the cats outside crazy.
I am afraid of that power supply. 2700V/46mA output. I tried to connect one 8W fluorescent tube and it worked but I only got about half the normal light. The wires were a bit loose connected and you should have seen/hear the sparks over there. Frightening stuff. And power-hungry too, it eats up more than one amp, steadily, to fire the laser.

Claude

[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Nothing40 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 07:13:28 PM MST

Nice find!

I wouldn't go mucking with the HeNe laser supply. I got shocked by one once (it was turned off) and the discharge from the caps felt like being hit with a baseball bat.Not an experience I wish to repeat!
That said,The laser can be alot of fun,just keep your fingers away from the HV connectors and stuff.Oh,and try not to point it in anyones eyes. :-)

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by RogerAS on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 08:38:54 PM MST

Hey,

I saw where there was some old Macs in the heap.

Perchance is there one of the old ADB keyboards in the mex? I'm in the need for one and can't find any. I'd be willing to pay $$!

Thanks,
Roger AS
9 Years off-grid & counting

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by fungus on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 03:09:40 AM MST

Roger:
I have a few ADB keyboards lying about, would probably be pretty high postage to US though. By 'old' which do you mean? :)

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk
[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by RogerAS on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:34:18 AM MST

Hi,

Sorry, I just saw the older Mac models you cited and my eyes glazed over the UK portion of your user data. By old I mean I have an old LCII that still runs, but I have no working ADB keyboard anymore. I have a mouse, but no keyboard. I even have an old B/W classic that only gets booted up once a year or so.

Sometimes I like to go back in time and use the LCII. Some things about the older operating systems are still quite cool. The fact that it boots up in less than a half hour is nice. :-)

Anyway, thanks and sorry for the lack of reading on my part. Have a good one.
Roger AS
9 Years off-grid & counting
[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by claude on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:05:51 AM MST

Roger, believe me, you wouldn't want some 10 years old keyboards that gathered dust after being intensively used for typing by DTP professionals.

Claude

[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by TomW on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:23:43 AM MST

Roger;

I know I have a clutch of ADB keyboards in a storage tub in my corncrib. It is just not a shed I can get at until the snow shrinks so I can open the door.

Once that happens here in the next month or so I will dig out one and check it on my old dusty SE. If I have one, its yours. Even ship it free to see it get used rather than landfilled.

TomW

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by RogerAS on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 06:53:28 AM MST

Tom,

I'd love to get the ADB keyboard, but I won't accept it for free!

Maybe we could swap something? I've got a lot of "Stuff". Maybe I could build you one of my 555 based desulfators, or a solar tracker circuit, or some other gadget?

If nothing else I will pay for shipping.

Oh, do you or any other F.L. user know where I might find a NuBus ehternet card? Yea, I know, I'm really streching things with that one. :-)

Anway, thanks Tom.
Roger AS
9 Years off-grid & counting
[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by fungus on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 08:32:30 AM MST

'Oh, do you or any other F.L. user know where I might find a NuBus ehternet card? '
I have one around but lost the cable for it (had a dongle with male plug on the end) ..
eBay usually has them.

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk
[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by blueyonder on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:56:41 PM MST

claude . how did i know.
how did i also know you left the best bit behind.
foresight is a great thing. but for sum reason it always comes to us afterwards.
i do the same thing . my hind sight is better than my fore sight.
and as a normal person you don't want to be greedy.
so what with the truck driver waiting on you etc etc. it was bound to happen.
but maybe the truck driver had that bit.
his yard must be full of stuff.
next time you look at a dumpster .check out how thick the steel is.
as with a plasma cutter you can get two nice rotor discs .
no im only joking.
but sure would baffle the police.
its a ill wind that dos no good

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by claude on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:17:18 PM MST

I took a compass and checked the no of poles on the inner ring of magnets. There are four poles, NSNS, 90 degrees apart. I was thinking about replacing the magnet ring with 8 magnets (half HDD neo's) as the space alows that. What do you think?

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by ghurd on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:50:25 PM MST

The 8 magnets will short the flux. Looks like 6 coils? 4 neos will cog a lot less than 6.

Mac Parts: Quote them shipping costs, you to them. :-)

I am a bit unhappy. I thought I invented 6 coils and 4 magnets.
You ruined my day. I will feel better after she retrieves the big stick.

I can not believe you left the degaussing coils just because a truck was ready to grind you to bits.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by claude on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 04:42:41 AM MST

Glen, the degaussing coils are not a lost cause! :-)
There are still about three monitors that are waiting for me.

About the motor. Are you sure? 8 poles would short the flux? How come? There is plenty of space for 8 HDD halves, with about the same width in between them. I fear that 4 poles would require too much rpm to put out useful voltage. Also, I could skew those magnets to avoid too much cogging.

I won't ship Mac parts to anyone because I know how those looked/worked. Believe me, it isn't worth the trouble of shipping them.

Claude

[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by ghurd on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 07:58:40 AM MST

It would always have 2 neos over a pole at the same time, so the flux would run neo to neo along the top of the T... instead of through the coil, around the laminations, and out the oposite coil.
At least that's how I see it.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: High-tech dumpster dive (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by electrondady1 on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 08:07:17 AM MST

claude,
i'm just a peace loving canadian guy.
(we have the best snipers in the world bar none)
when i attached a pointer type laser to my small bore rifle
i suddenly became a crack shot.
if times get tough,
and the "evil doers"come to get your windmill and stuff
the laser could really increase your range of influence.

[ Parent ]

High-tech dumpster dive | 22 comments (22 topical)

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