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Stator question


By TheCasualTraveler, Section Newbies
Posted on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 02:21:10 AM MST
easy question.

     I'm working on my second alternator. In an earlier post, Flux recomended I use 2 - 10" discs with 8 magnets each, so dual rotor 16 magnets total. In laying out my stator I believe I can use either 6 coils arranged 2 coils per phase for 3 phase OR I can use 12 coils, 4 coils per phase for 3 phase.

     The more I look at it I think the logical choice is 12 coils but I wanted to confirm that.

     Using 1" x 2" x 1/2" neos with a 1/2" thick stator and 10" steel disks I believe I have no problem fitting in 12 coils of a decent gauge wire and sufficient turns.

     So, as long as space is not a concern then 12 coils, right?

Stator question | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Stator question (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Flux on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 02:56:10 AM MST
(User Info)

If you want to wind it as a single layer with coils side by side then you only have the 6 coil option.

Eight pole 3 phase can be wound with 24 coils. That is 3 single phase 8 coil windings displaced 120 electrical degrees.  Normally that would be done as a 2 layer winding with overlapped coils. If you could imagine this wound in slots then each slot would contain one coil side at the bottom and the other side of another coil would sit on top. Difficult to wind without slots to hold the coil sides in position.

You can wind with 12 coils, each single phase section will now have 4 coils, each under the same polarity. Consequent or phantom poles are formed under the remaining spaces.

This is normally wound with half the coils having dog legs bent at right angles on the end winding, leaving spaces for "straight" coils to fit down in the dog leg bits. This lets the active winding all lie in one layer but the end connections will be thicker and will need to overhang the magnets.

Both schemes are used with radial slotted constructions. The 12 coil method can also be done with slotless radials fairly easily as the coils are pre formed .  Even the 2 layer 24 coil winding can be done with a slotless radial but it is a real challenge.

With axials even with slots the space for overlapping end connections is very limited at the centre and it is a bit of a challenge. When you remove the slots then you start to  run into serious constructional problems.

It so happens that leaving out half the coils of the consequent pole winding will let you produce a 3 phase winding that all sits on one layer with no overlapping. That is the basis of all the 12/9 multiple windings used here.

It could be done as a radial but there would be no point as part of the circumference is not wound and it doesn't make maximum use of materials.

For axials, the entire space can never be used, if the coil legs touch at the centre there will be gaps between them on the outside. This wasted space and the difficulty of dealing with overlapped ends at the centre makes the single layer winding attractive. By playing with the pole spacing it is possible to reduce the unwound portion to under 25% and considering the increase of resistance from the extra wire needed to overlap the ends you arrive at a situation where this single layer winding will be as good or better than the difficult to wind overlapped coil version.

If you are in an area where corrosion is an issue and you want to pot the magnets then the overlapped coil winding presents real problems and you will have to stop the potting beyond the magnets on the inside and outside for the bent coil ends to lie in.

All of this adds up to the fact that with an axial design it is never worth the struggle to use other than a single layer winding. So unless you want to sweat blood for no reward your best option is 6 coils.

Flux



Re: Stator question (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Lumberjack on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 07:39:52 PM MST
(User Info)

with side by side coils in only a single layer your a bit limited to the arrangements possible. Overlapping coils are a lot more flexible but require thinner coils.



Re: Stator question (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by FrancoisO on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 01:33:59 AM MST
(User Info)

I have a similar question, I'm preparing to construct my first WT to beat the energy crisis that we have here in South Africa.
I managed to get hold of BIG Neo magnets 50 x 50 x 15mm N35( 2" x 2" x 3/4" ) and 12 " disk brake rotors.
I'm planning a 12' disk brake turbine(similar to this one: http://www.reuk.co.uk/DIY-2kW-Wind-Turbine.htm), but my problem is with the stator design.
The magnets I have are so big that I can only fit 8 of them on the rotors.
That would mean 6 coils for 3-phase power.
I need 24V, but which gauge wire, what size coil and how many turns do I use to maximise the massive flux of these magnets? I'd prefer low cut-in speed.
Very few of the turbines plans I have found on the net uses magnets of this size.
Any help, hints or links would be most welcome.
 

[ Parent ]


Re: Stator question (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Flux on Sun Mar 16th, 2008 at 02:44:54 AM MST
(User Info)

Yes you will need 6 coils. Your magnets are going to be crowded on a 12" disc so you will not make best use of them but it should still be fine.

You will need to make the stator thicker than usual probably 20mm.

Because of the crowding I am not sure what winding space you will have ( I can't be bothered to draw it all out). Try a test coil with 100 turns. I suspect you may manage 1.2mm dia wire but you may have to go thinner if you can't get it in. You can make the holes in the coils trapezoidal so they are smaller than the magnet at the centre to get more wire in without loosing much.( 50mm outside by 35mm inside may be reasonable)

Flux

[ Parent ]



Stator question | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 editorial)
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