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Vanner inverter damage


By bob g, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 03:22:14 AM MST
need some technical advice about cleaning a pcb

ok, i bought a pair of smoke damaged 3600watt inverter/chargers off ebay
they were advertised as being in a fire not the cause of the fire.

well it turns out one was the cause, and the other took alot of smoke
and water from the fire dept,, and then they were pulled and stored in some
gawdawefull place without being dried out.

so i got corrosion, and the pc board are not only covered in soot, some corrosion, dust, dirt etc.

i am going to try and salvage one out of parts from both, so
i plan on complete disassembly
the boards need cleaned i assume distilled water and a stiff fiber brush
followed by blowing dry?

any idea's of tips would be helpful

bob g

Vanner inverter damage | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by commanda (alwynne at unwired dot com dot au) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 09:33:40 PM MST
(User Info)

I usually use IsoPropyl Alcohol (comes in a spray can labelled IPA) and a toothbrush.

If the board has more than 2 layers and has corrosion you're wasting your time.

Amanda



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by TomW on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 09:42:11 PM MST
(User Info)

Bob;

Do not mistake me for an expert.

I figure anything thats been soaked or submerged in water already probably will not be further damaged by a water cleanup.

You might have some luck submerging it in a bath of water thats being agitated to loosen crud gently.

Would all depend on how it looks. If it is just to salvage components a stiff brushing might be OK, but to salvage boards you may scrub off traces by brushing.

I never tried much salvage of corroded boards but have lifted components from them that were fine.

In fact, I might just take the pressure washer and blow off the crud from a distance if I just wanted parts. Lots of variables. Most components are more or less sealed so wet not likely fatal.

Good Luck.

TomW

Contact: IRC




Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 10:45:43 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Amandas got it right. I would use IPA and a tooth brush......good luck  
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF


Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by bob g on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 09:08:37 AM MST
(User Info)

the goal is to salvage the pc boards complete so that maybe i can sort out enough
to reassemble one of the inverters.

so i guess i will go the alcohol route and a soft brissle tooth brush.

once clean and dry, i would assume i should coat them with something to protect
the boards and to aid in keeping further corrosion in check.

spray laquer, or is there a specific spray on finish to coat the boards?

also i need to make sure the two large transformers are clean and dry
i would suppose connecting them to some low voltage low current source
so that they can slowly heat up and assure they are dry.

how about some form of varnish to reseal them? maybe take them to a motor shop
to have them dipped?

i have tried to contact vanner service dept, but they have not returned my calls as of yet,, i suspect they really don't have much desire in supporting a 10 year old inverter.

thanks

bob g



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by commanda (alwynne at unwired dot com dot au) on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 03:34:57 PM MST
(User Info)

once clean and dry, i would assume i should coat them with something to protect
the boards and to aid in keeping further corrosion in check.

spray laquer, or is there a specific spray on finish to coat the boards?

It's called "Conformal Coating". The proper top-notch stuff we use for IS (intrinsically safe) mining gas monitoring equipment is not cheap. Most larger electronics suppliers will have some sort of aerosol lacquer (ask for Circuit Board Lacquer) for a reasonable price.

Amanda

[ Parent ]



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by bob g on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 08:37:31 PM MST
(User Info)

Thanks one and all

Amanda: thanks for the tip, we have a good electronics supply house here
i will check with them for the laquer

bob g

[ Parent ]



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Slingshot on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 09:25:17 AM MST
(User Info)

Don't know if you've waited too late, but since it sounds like the seller misrepresented these items you should be entitled to compensation.  If you haven't left positive feedback yet, contact the seller with what you've found and open the conversation concerning a partial refund.



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by zeusmorg on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 04:35:52 PM MST
(User Info)

 a hair dryer on low or no heat will help dry out your components...



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by jimjjnn (jimjjnn at yahoo dot com) on Fri Apr 11th, 2008 at 10:23:09 AM MST
(User Info)

I take computer PCB boards ( no mechanicals) to my shower. Turn to hottest temperature. Spray them off. Turn on edge to allow excess water to drip off. Then place them in my oven at the lowest temp setting for an hour or two.
Reinstall in computer. I remove the fans from power supplies beforehand.
After I reinstall them, I allow them to cool down for a few hours before appling power.

I learned this as an experiment with a the company I worked with before retirement.
Never had a failure.

Jim Denver,CO
[ Parent ]



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by DanG on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 09:29:29 PM MST
(User Info)

Yes - distilled water is a very powerful solvent compared to tap water - over time it will even eat Teflon off water heating chamber walls where water with dissolved minerals wouldn't touch it after years of use. Wal-Mart has 32 ounce jugs of 91% Isopropyl for a dollar. My favorite solvent is dry-erase board cleaner but it will strip the labels off keyboards, etc. but should knock down any smoke or other accumulations.

Take sharp clear macro photos or record every component number before starting. You might have big problems after trying to match values or specs if you don't (beyond the OEM relabeling)...

You have one good opportunity to get them clean; 'modern' electronics are NOW almost all water washable since the new VOC guidelines have specified warm water to replace the old flux cleaners, etc.. So on a your 10-year old unit you may have lost a few components already so go for it. Repeated drying cycles are bad if you use heat - kind of my personal opinion but you have a day or two of rinses and one good 12-hour bake then PCB lacquer. If you buy the electronics kind know there are a couple of flavors of it, I don't think you need the $25-a-can 20,000 volt dielectric stuff.

Beware the old leaded solder that's grown lead oxide crystals - no food or smoking when in the work area and do the work on a disposable surface with disposable supplies and don't be breathing the brush mist blah blah blah.



Re: Vanner inverter damage (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by bob g on Fri Apr 11th, 2008 at 07:31:53 PM MST
(User Info)

well the inspection is complete on both units
they are toast!

they were advertised as being in a fire, not the cause of the fire!

oh well, i was able to salvage the transfomers, very nice units
that are in the 2kva size if i had to make a guess

the end result is the transformers are about twice what i would likely have paid for them, but probably half of what they sell for new, so i can't complain too much.

you roll the dice and sometimes you crap out i guess.

actually i am very happy to get the transformers.

the upside is the design of the inverter is fairly easy to reverse engineer
the mosfet driver boards albeit fried, have very easily mapped traces and very few components all of which i can read,, and i have been very interested in mosfet drivers for a transformer anyway,, so i can write off part of the cost of these two monsters to education as it applies to mosfet and their drivers.

i think if i am reasonably careful i can salvage one of the logic boards and see if i can learn how the mosfets are controlled.

maybe someday i might even step up and build a modified sine wave inverter using industrial igbts as drivers
i have a 15kva 3phase transformer, and it would be cool to build a monster modified
sine wave 3 phase inverter in the 15 kva class to use for powering intermittently used shop equipment where efficiency is not a major concern.

would have been nice to have had enough out of two inverters to resurrect one, but sadly this is not the case.

it is evident that these inverters were installed without fuse protection on the dc buss, the 4/0 cables provided one heck of alot of amperage to reak havoc inside these inverters.

for the want of a fuse a couple of nice inverters bit the big one, and the coach they were mounted in i am sure has some serious smoke damage if not far worse.

thanks to all that have offered advice.

bob g



Vanner inverter damage | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial)
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