Tough week for electricity
By DanB, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 03:21:25 PM MST
Putting Humpty Dumpty back together again...

Busy/strange couple of weeks.  Lots of work yet to do before we go to Wisconsin.  Pictured above George is fabricating another 17' wind turbine.  We'll hopefully finish that today. Lots of stators.  Rich makes a couple/few per week. Ouch.  This stroke of bad luck started on Friday.  Friday morning my wind turbine started making strange loud chirping sounds...  (I thought it was a bird at first) - then it changed to chirping/loud thumping.  Then it locked up in light winds.  I figured the bearing failed.  So we ran the listeroid diesel all day - I forgot to drain the water tank Friday night though. The side was even worse than the cylinder head - I broke out the pieces,  flattened them, ground them down and tried to glue it back together with JB weld.  I think it was old glue...  it wasn't adhering very well so I scraped it all back off.  The hole is about 4" wide/6" tall. Got some new JB Weld on Monday and gave it another shot. I covered the hole in the head with a steel plate/gasket. Put new glue on the side, it worked out better this time (kind of ugly though).  I ran it for a couple hours yesterday - so far so good, it's still water tight anyhow.  Ill never dare to pressurize this engine though. Also - I turned my wind turbine back on Sunday evening (out of desperation  - I needed the power).  It broke loose in a good gust, make strange noises for about 1 min and then took off, it's been fine ever since.  It evidently chewed up and spit out whatever the problem was...

Tough week for electricity | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#1) by Flux on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 11:48:06 AM MST (User Info)

Dan you'll never get me to live in a land where an engine that has been running all day can get that frost damaged in one night. We haven't had that sort of frost for a few years and I like it that way. Time will tell with the wind turbine, it may be something silly and not cause any more bother, but it does have some symptoms of a cage breaking up in a bearing. Good luck anyway. Flux

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#3) by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 02:33:10 PM MST (User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Hopefully I'm a lucky man.  The diesel and the wind turbine have been running all day with no problems. [ Parent ]

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#8) by MattM on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 06:58:14 PM MST (User Info)

Could it have just been some ice buildup? ----------------------------- Go Huskers! [ Parent ]

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#2) by jimjjnn (jimjjnn at yahoo dot com) on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 12:43:46 PM MST (User Info)

Dan, with the Spring and Winter conditions we have been getting this year, I would  keep the tank drained until needed or put in Antifreeze. Snowing again today after 75-80 degree temps for a few days here in Denver Jim Denver,CO

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#4) by richhagen (richhagen (a t) Juno.com) on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 03:41:50 PM MST (User Info)

Your altitude there really shows, I have tomatoes already in the ground (well actually in containers on my roof) here in Chicago, hopefully I am not being overly optomistic, but I am going to be gone from Sunday on for most of May, so outside they had to go.  Tough break with the Listeroid, I liked that engine of yours, don't like seeing it damaged like that.  No antifreeze? I usually find that when I here a strange noise from a piece of machinery, I later regret ignoring the noise and hoping it goes or went away.  I'd pull that turbine down and have a look around at the first opportunity.  I'd hate to see a small bearing issue cost you a stator or a blade set or more.  Just because you could rebuild the whole machine doesn't mean you should have to.   Rich 'A Joule saved is a Joule made'

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#5) by wdyasq on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 05:05:02 PM MST (User Info)

When I was young I was taught of a product called 'anti-freeze'. The fear if it was not used in engines, severe damage was possible with freezing temperatures was firmly installed in my feeble mind. I use the product and have never had to repair such damage on items when I was in charge of their care. Ron Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#7) by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 06:46:11 PM MST (User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Ron, it should be setup better.  As it is the cooling tank is too small, I can use antireez  but it boils off quickly.  (JB weld is actually cheaper) Hopefully soon, that small cooling tank will be gone and well have some nice radiators. [ Parent ]

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#6) by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 05:26:56 PM MST (User Info)

In addition to lowering the freezing point, making the eventual ice slushier, and otherwise modifying the low-temperature expansion chacacteristics, antifreeze does two other things for cooling systems:  - It raises the boiling point, allowing the engine to run hotter without boiling over.  - It has additives that inhibit corrosion of the metals in the water jacket.  (This lengthens engine life, improves heat transfer, reduces blockage of cooling water passages and jamming of thermostats by rust flakes, and the like.) You should use antifreeze even in the summer and even if you're not pressurized.  You should also change it every couple years to renew the corrosion inhibitors (and flush out any corrosion and debris that occurred regardless). They now call it "antifreeze and summer coolant", in an attempt to keep car owners in mild climates from refilling with water (especially in the summer), skipping cooling system service, and the like - eventually destroying their engines as a result.

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#9) by DanG on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 08:52:15 PM MST (User Info)

Resist anti-freeze until you can be sure there will be zero leaks have shielded catchments; Anti-Freeze has killed many good dogs when they lap up a slick of it - it's a drunk failing slowly into coma and none too pretty. My Missus was doing late season water-wash archaeology up on the Canadian Border and had a B&S powered water pump burst from ice - while in use; 6-hours running, river line through ice and pump side facing into wind was all it took. Thanks for posting the pictures; looks like they almost cast pseudo freeze plugs from the graceful repairs!

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#10) by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Thu May 1st, 2008 at 09:12:12 PM MST (User Info)

Good point.  Yeah, don't use antifreeze if there's a chance it will get loose and kids or animals will get to it, or it goes into your well or a stream or lake. It's toxic.  And it's sweet - so children and animals are likely to drink bunches if they drink any. The intoxication is the first of three stages - but it's the third stage that kills, by destroying the kidneys. If somebody gets poisoned by it, feed them alcohol (even if underage or nonhuman - but watch the dose vs. weight) while waiting for the paramedics.  (Like methanol, the damage is really done by the metabolites formed when the enzymes that normally digest ethanol break it down.  The enzymes prefer to bind with ethanol.  So you can keep them busy while much of the nasty is excreted unmodified.) In the third world they mix in some bitter stuff to keep kids and animals from drinking a bunch.  I have no idea why this is not done here. [ Parent ]

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#11) by Boss (brians.outfit(at)gmail.com) on Fri May 2nd, 2008 at 06:13:45 AM MST (User Info) http://www.outfitnm.com

Damn that was a messed up week, Seems like you did well under the circumstances. JB Weld ain't pretty but it works in a pinch. Many years ago I used it to fix a leak in a commercial boiler. Yikes I know, but as far as I know it is still holding. We gotta do what we gotta do.  The key is how quickly us fixers can come up with a workable solution and get back to what ever we were doing. Good job It's still freezing hard here in northern New Mexico on May 1st. As far as radiators go, I know you guys have plenty of firewood, but CHP (combined heat & power) is still a good way to increase efficiency of the Listeroid. Your friend in NM, Brian Rodgers Brian Rodgers

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#12) by Stonebrain on Fri May 2nd, 2008 at 05:50:27 PM MST (User Info)

Hope JBWeld is not too strong,I mean for not making the block burst next time.lol You're lucky cheers, stonebrain

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#13) by Countryboy on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 02:16:43 AM MST (User Info)

Automotive engine blocks have freeze plugs for a reason.  If the engine coolant freezes, it pops out the plugs instead of cracking the block. You might want to drill a hole in the side of the cover plate you made and install a freeze plug.  If you forget to drain the water again, you'll only need to reinstall another freeze plug.   I've even seen reusable freeze plugs too.  The ones with the thick rubber between two steel washers.  Tighten the bolt going through it, and it squeezes out the rubber to fit the hole.

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#16) by dbcollen on Sun May 4th, 2008 at 01:59:41 PM MST (User Info)

They are for some reason called "Freeze Plugs" while in fact they are the holes needed to remove the sand left inside the block from the casting mold. "freeze plugs" will not save an engine block from cracking when they freeze. Dustin Mad River Wind and Hydro [ Parent ]

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#17) by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Sun May 4th, 2008 at 10:26:43 PM MST (User Info)

That's part of what antifreeze is about:  When the solution finally does freeze and expand it at first forms a slush that is flexible enough that it will often push out the freeze plug rather than crack the block or head.  (Pure water, of course, will form a hard ice block that doesn't flex well enough to avoid cracking the castings.) [ Parent ]

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#14) by tecker on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 02:45:25 AM MST (User Info)

This might be worth a try. I can't advise making a cocktail from it but I see it around the marinas . http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=7812&familyName=Camco+Ban+Fr ost+2000+Marine+Antifreeze

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#15) by tecker on Sun May 4th, 2008 at 08:49:39 AM MST (User Info)

George seems to go about his business in a distinctive manner .Would be interesting to get his thoughts as he passes on ideas on metallurgy and building  to folks at the seminar.

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#18) by Warrior on Mon May 5th, 2008 at 09:24:40 AM MST (User Info)

Hi all, Dan sorry to see the damage. We get very cold temperatures here, but I'm not sure if its enough to cause that much damage... Since I know Dan is a dog lover (and so am I), you can use regular ethanol alcohol mixed with water instead of antifreeze. Anybody who drinks it won't get much more than a hangover. Good Luck, Warrior__ "Why can't Murphy's Law be used to my advantage??" [ Parent ]

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#19) by bj (jackbp996@msn.com) on Mon May 5th, 2008 at 05:53:12 PM MST (User Info)

Tough week indeed.  Have done the water thing myself,  more than I want to admit.  The J.B. weld will work, as you have already seen, But if you want to do a more permanent repair, let me suggest Ni-Rod.      This is a high Nickel rod that can be used for repair on cast iron.      The big advantage is that Nickel is very flexible. Nickel is almost like Gold in flexibility.  Have repaired many exhaust manifolds with this rod.  Have to hold a fairly long arc though.  Maybe your repairs are enough.  Good Luck.  And Thanks. thanks all bj

Re: Tough week for electricity (3.00 / 0) (#20) by Warrior on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 05:11:50 AM MST (User Info)

Yup, as BJ said you could try to arc weld them with 99% pure Nickel rods. It's very tricky to weld some types of cast iron. Usually the low grade stuff made from scrap metal is almost impossible. After you've laid out the bead, the cast iron cracks due to thermal expansion/contraction. Some parts need to be pre-heated before welding and allowed to cool slowly. Definitely not an every day job. Maybe the JB Weld will hold for a long time... Warrior__ "Why can't Murphy's Law be used to my advantage??" [ Parent ]

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