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air gap and second rotor


By rpcancun, Section Mechanical
Posted on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:25:10 PM MST
:

quick question:

Does airgap only increase/decrease amps,...or also volts?

Does adding a second rotor increase amps and volts?

How much more power does the second rotor add?

Thx

Rob

air gap and second rotor | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by finnsawyer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:55:17 AM MST

The questions may be quick, but the answers wouldn't be.  I'm going to pass on this until you do some serious research.  Know that all these things are interconnected, so there are no simple answers.  I suggest you read the last two years or so of postings on this site.
GeoM


Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by rpcancun on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:18:06 PM MST

Well,...that answer was absolutely useless...

I dont need logartyhmic quantum nasa answers...

Ok for you anal retentives,...

rotor size = your ego
rpm = the speed of your arrogance.

at present you generate 10 volts 1 amp

so now we double your ego (2nd rotor identical to first)

rpm same, atmospheric pressure...same, rotation of the sun the same..etc..

do we still get 10 volts? and 1 amp...?

and for the over complicated minds and arrogant ones:

a: volts will go up

b: volts AND amps go up

c: I'm not a braniac,.....i dont know.

Please answer a,b,c,

AS far as rotor gap

Closing rotor gap will:

a: Increase volts

b: Increase amps

c: increase both

d: i dont know

thx

Rob

[ Parent ]



Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by kurt on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:18:49 PM MST

rpcancun, it would serve you well to be polite even when someone does not give you the answer you want... that is all i am going to say and you only get that because you used to come on to the irc and left there on good terms as far as i remember.

Kurt


IRC inst.
just a personal rant carry on.
[ Parent ]



Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by finnsawyer on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:12:35 AM MST

In my view, the anal retentive ones are the ones who are too lazy or unwilling to do their homework (research).  After all, what does retentive mean?
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by WindJuggler on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:03:03 AM MST

A simple answer is the flux (magnetic density) is behaves inverse logaritmic compared to the distance.

The rest you can figure out for yourself with simple logic.

Wim



Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by finnsawyer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:15:44 AM MST

If you leave off the "logaritmic", whatever that is, you're pretty much correct.  But what about making the coil longer with more turns?  What about the effect on leakage flux?
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by joestue on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:39:52 AM MST

Per unit output is roughly related to:
The square of the flux density
Mass of copper.
RPM.
copper fill factor.

Flux density is related to:
Specific characteristics of the magnet.
inverse relationship to the air gap length.
leakage flux. (Majority of which is related to the specific shape of the magnet.)

Alternator design is driven by cost.

Someone has said that round magnets are the most effective, but much of that depends on the p.u. cost of the magnet, not the shape.

[ Parent ]



Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Flux on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:38:47 PM MST

"Does airgap only increase/decrease amps,...or also volts?"

It directly affects volts.

"Does adding a second rotor increase amps and volts?"

If you do it  the logical way it increases volts.

"How much more power does the second rotor add?"

Who knows? it typically would double the volts.

That is about all there is to say without going deeper into things, which you don't seem to want to do.

What happens to current and power is more complex and that is what the others were trying to point out.

If you don't want to delve deeper then  for a given winding resistance the current will follow the difference in volts from generated emf to battery volts divided by circuit resistance. There are other factors such as changes in cut in speed that likely will make nonsense of this.

Most likely if you sort the anomalies to your advantage the dual rotor will give about 4 times the power of a single rotor, but not on direct swapping.

Flux



Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by rpcancun on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:33:29 PM MST

Thanx Flux!! for the simple answer...

Reason i asked cause i half assembled my gen.

( its in the previous postings where u said it will be high voltage)

with 12 2x2 mags i turned it by hand (60rpm?) and I got 2 volts from one phase with each coil wired paralell, it seemed low so i rewired in series....
i was curious what i would get when i added the second rotor

so ill move the air gap around to see what i get...

Again,..Thx for the quick n dirty answer..

Rob

[ Parent ]



Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by GeeMac on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:42:33 AM MST

Do what I do. Have some fun by experimenting. Try an idea and measure the result. You will soon learn how each action will effect the output of your unit.
Jesus is coming. Try to look busy. GeeMac


Re: air gap and second rotor (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by veewee77 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:37:16 PM MST

Watch it, rpcancun. . . there are lots here who will help. . . but, you will have to:
A.) Do some research.
B.) Provide more information.
C.) Be nice.

On answer B. above, You said nothing about rpm, or windings, or thickness of wire, etc. . .

If you bring a strong magnet close to an object that it wants to stick to, doesn't the "pull" get exponentially stronger the closer it gets. . .Stands to reason that if everything else were the same, it would be stronger with the magnets closer together, meaning more amps. And possibly more volts, depending on the loading.

If you have more available amps, the voltage will hold higher for the same RPM.

So to answer your question, just try it and see what happens. . . good way to learn if you already have everything made. . .

Have fun, too!

Doug



air gap and second rotor | 11 comments (11 topical)
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