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Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner?


By snowcrow, Section Mechanical
Posted on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 03:33:13 PM MST
Coating Stator Mold with Epoxy

  I've made a stator mold out of high density fiber board and have coated it with epoxy.  In order to get the glass like finish for my final coat, I need to thin the epoxy out quit a bit to get it to level out.

  The epoxy I'm using is a 1:1 ratio and I'll be using lacquer thinner to thin it out. Neither the epoxy or the lacquer thinner give a ratio for thinning, so.... my question is... how much lacquer thinner can I use before I start making a gummy mess?

Blessings, Snow Crow

Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by snowcrow on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 09:59:17 AM MST
(User Info)

  Oops..Its 5 Minute epoxy by the way!

Blessings, Snow Crow



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by wdyasq on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 02:43:44 PM MST
(User Info)

It should be a criminal act to call  "5 minute epoxy" epoxy.

The right answer is to get  and use real epoxy. Real epoxy is a lot thinner, a lot stronger, is a real adhesive and water-proof. These qualities the stuff you have does not possess.

"I just spent 80 hours and a weeks wages on this wind turbine ..... I think I'll save some time and money and use manure instead of the right product ... just for this one little part ...."

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen
[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by vawtman (vawtman(at)charter(dot)net) on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 02:53:53 PM MST
(User Info)

Ron, he's just using it has lipstick.Relax, but i totally agree with you for other purposses.

[ Parent ]


Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by clflyguy (sidney.raiford@gmail.com) on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 07:46:03 PM MST
(User Info)

Snowcrow,
 5 minute epoxy won't cure if thinned, period. Speaking from experience here. Like
Ron said and I agree, the 5 minute stuff barely qualifies as an epoxy. If acquiring
some decent epoxy to glaze your mold with is presenting a problem, then use
polyester. It will flow out nicely if worked quickly and LEFT ALONE. Don't be
tempted 4 1/2 minutes into the process to "touch up" that little place you just now
saw, let it cure. Sand and coat again. If the porosity has been filled then sand
out with some 400 grit and buff with a liquid buffing compound. If that is too
expensive for your tastes then use some baking soda mixed with regular crest
toothpaste thinned with a little water- no kidding (plus it makes your buffing pad
smell good). Rinse & wipe mold out well. Order some Meguires mold release wax. Wax
& polish with a soft cotton cloth after each of the 7 coats, put on at least an
hour apart. If you have designed your mold with a couple of degrees of draft angle
and if there is no porosity in the vertical surfaces then you can probably cast
your stator at this point without fear of sticking- it works for the pro's. If a
higher degree of certainty is required then mist on 2 light coats of PVA (poly-
vinyl alcohol, trade name Part-All) and your stator will virtually fall out of the
mold.

[ Parent ]


Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by snowcrow on Sun May 4th, 2008 at 05:29:37 AM MST
(User Info)

  Thanks for chiming in clflyguy, I see you've done a fair amount of work with this kind of thing and will take your word on not thinning it.

  Unfortunately, I have already used the 5 minute epoxy, un-thinned, for my base coat. I didn't think using the stuff would turn out to be such an issue. Can I go over it with good stuff, (US Composites 635 thin epoxy) without any ill effects?

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by wdyasq on Sun May 4th, 2008 at 06:12:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Most epoxies bond to about everything. For molds, I don't think you will have a problem.

One thing that does work well is to warm/heat the part up before applying the resin. And yes, the epoxy can be warmed also. We are talking warming to 100F or so. This causes the epoxy to be a bit thinner and the air in the part will be expanded and as it contracts it will pull a bit of epoxy back in.

I am not familiar with the particular formulation of epoxy you are using but, pay attention to curing temperature and times. Epoxy curing times are cut in half with every 10C rise in temperature or so. Some epoxies will not cure properly below 60F/15C.

There are many 'tricks' to epoxy and most industrial processes. One must be careful which 'tricks' they use for which process. Some were invented by the worker/craftsman and are good 'tricks' and make good sense in saving time/money and building a better product. Other 'tricks' can compromise the integrity if a project but are still used because a craftsman is stupid/ignorant/lazy or a combination of the three. There is usually someone up the command/food chain that is a least as stupid/lazy/ignorant or has a 'don't give a damn' attitude allowing that practice to continue. Management can be as sorry as labor.

Regrets for the long-winded answer but, stupid shortcuts are one of my pet peeves. Although using resin in an improper way in a mold is unlikely to cause problems, I have seen some of these 'shortcuts' destroy very expensive equipment and had them come too close to being my final thoughts in this life a couple of times.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen
[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by clflyguy (sidney.raiford@gmail.com) on Sun May 4th, 2008 at 08:07:04 PM MST
(User Info)

Yes, you can... just sand the 5 minute stuff with 220 before applying the good
stuff. It might gum up your paper, if so then go to a rougher grit. All you're
doing is making a more uniform surface for the next coat and providing micro-
scratches for better bonding of the good stuff. Win-win. Send pictures, I love
pictures... Gus

[ Parent ]


Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by snowcrow on Mon May 5th, 2008 at 05:28:13 AM MST
(User Info)

  Thanks Gus, another question answered!!  I did sand the mold last night with 120 grit to smooth out the lumps and bumps.  I had let it cure for 24 hours, so it was nice and hard, not gummy at all.

 The 5 minute epoxy being as thick as it is, really worked good to seal the fiber board without causing it to swell.

 I'm doing the picture taking old school, seeing as I killed digital camera!!! I should have the roll finished up this week and have it post soon. Thanks again Gus!

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by tecker on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 11:09:08 AM MST
(User Info)

My experience with fiber board is no mater what you do the stuff will warp or  swell or both  . I haven't tried it but Jerry has had good luck laminating fiberglass paneling about $25 a sheet



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Chagrin on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 11:40:15 AM MST
(User Info)

Use alcohol with epoxy to thin it. 5-minute epoxy is a bit different formulation and I haven't tried it myself, but for "true" epoxy it works well. Only a little is required -- perhaps 5-10% or so.




Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by snowcrow on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 02:05:54 PM MST
(User Info)

  Thank Chagrin, I think I'll try a small test patch using both Alcohol and Lacquer thinner. It did say on the thinner that it was formulated for both lacquer and epoxy.  I'll post the results here.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by lforbes on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 07:15:49 PM MST
(User Info)

What kind of alcohol would that be (if it makes a difference)?.  Methyl, ethyl, isopropyl??

Laurie Forbes


Laurie Forbes
Calgary, Canada

[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by snowcrow on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 07:39:19 PM MST
(User Info)

 I think Chagrin was referring to either ethyl, or isopropyl alcohol, both of witch can be found in the lacquer thinner I had planned to use.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Chagrin on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 11:34:27 PM MST
(User Info)

I was referring to "denatured alcohol" (ethanol). Other alcohols probably work just as well but I only ever used denatured alcohol.

I might mention I used it for about the same purpose -- coating plywood panels in a wooden boat to help waterproof them.

[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by vawtman (vawtman(at)charter(dot)net) on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 01:34:40 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Snowcrow
 I think you may be striving for perfection in an imperfect world. :)



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by snowcrow on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 02:29:56 PM MST
(User Info)

 Well... its not first time I've been accused of being a perfectionist :) lol  I've got enough magnet wire for three stators and if the mold last that long I'm doing good ;> I may also want to build a 48v stator later, as my system gets bigger.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by vawtman (vawtman(at)charter(dot)net) on Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 02:47:44 PM MST
(User Info)

FYI Crow
 Samoapower thinned jbweld using acetone for his coil winder awhile back.It's also recommended by them(jb) and your thinner also is.Go to the sight of the company your using and see what they say.

 Have Fun :v)


[ Parent ]



Re: Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by coatnguy on Wed May 14th, 2008 at 12:18:52 PM MST
(User Info)

Good rule of thumb for Epoxies "Don't trust them to perform miracles for the long haul"
With good safety practices: (charcoal filter mask, good ventilation, absolutely no fire around).  MEK @ 5% is fine. (Add more working time for your project by premixing into the B component first).

Smooth down all rough edges of the Epo.... Rag it with Denatured alcohol.... It's ready for the Polyaspartic coat.


[ Parent ]



Thinning Epoxy with lacquer thinner? | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial)
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