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Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor


By farhan, Section Newbies
Posted on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 07:32:54 AM MST
Need help with motor

Hello,

I would like to know whether this motor is good to be used as wind generator, the amperes are not written on it, if its a good motor how do i calculate how many watts it can give me.

And kindly tell me is my following calculation right:

4000 RPM / 180V = 22.2222 RPM for 1 Volt

So to start charging a battery i need 12volts,
thats makes it 22.2222 * 12 = 266.666 RPM are required to start charging the battery, is this right?

If it is can any one help and tell me how to calculate what output i can expect from it.

Thanks & Best Regards,
Farhan
Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Flux on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:49:16 AM MST
(User Info)

Your cut in speed is near enough. I wouldn't worry about the 3 decimal places, with the difference between use as a motor and generator it will be higher as a generator ( probably 300rpm ish).

One hp is 746W so it is electrically about 1kW out. Leaving a bit for efficiency say 1200W in at 180v gives 6.7A and that will be its continuous current rating. With wind you can overload it a fair bit as long as the brushes don't get overloaded too badly. Say 15 to 20A intermittent.

Cut in speed would suit something like a 4ft prop or fast 5ft and you can expect about 200W or a bit more for short peaks into 12v.

Flux



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by farhan on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:01:36 AM MST
(User Info)

Thank you for your quick reply sir.

4ft Prop is the total diameter right? that means 2 ft blades. I made 3 ft blades with PVC but due to bad mounting the broke, had to cut them short and made them 2ft each now. i have 4 blades made can i put 4 or 3 are better?

After all your calculations do you think its a good motor to work with? this is my first time doing this.

The motor say 1.5HP max, some people say where max is written its not the original HP and may be quite less, is that right?

Lastly as you said it can make 200W, how long will it take to charge a 12V 145AH battery.

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Flux on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 07:21:16 AM MST
(User Info)

Yes 4ft diameter ( 2ft blades).

I am not inspired by pvc blades, I think you will be hard pushed to get much from them, that motor is a bit on the fast side. 3 blades or 4 makes little difference.

I personally wouldn't use a dc motor or pvc blades but don't let me put you off. I have been playing with wind power for a long time and passed that sort of thing many years ago. Many start that way and progress to better things or get put off with poor results.

I suspect that 1.5hp max on a treadmill motor does mean that. From the size of some of those things I can only believe it is a very short term rating and continuous it may be nearer 1/2 hp.

"Lastly as you said it can make 200W, how long will it take to charge a 12V 145AH battery. "

I doubt that you will see 200W often or for long. I can't even give you an estimate of charging time, but you would probably need to base it on 10 -20 Watts continuous.

Don't expect much any you won't be disappointed, it's not going to power a house.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Chuck on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 09:14:06 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greeleynet.com/~cmorrison

I agree with everything Flux has said. I might suggest using a two blade rotor for higher rpm. This could introduce rough yawing, but it's possible to use weights to smooth that out if need be. This would allow it to yaw like four blades with the speed advantage of two.
Just a thought.


Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by farhan on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 12:22:56 PM MST
(User Info)

thank you both of you for your comments and advise.

actually this is my first time trying out a wind turbine, so i have based everything on things i have read here and on other sites, for a newbie i would think its an ok project to start off, and no i won't get put off that easily : )

i will try and improve with time and learn from you guys, i don't need it to power a house i just want it to charge my ups battery because there is a lot of problem of electricity here in Pakistan. Everyday there is no power for 2-4 hours atleast. My Ups gives me 2 hour back-up but i want to extent it by adding this.

Hope i'm clear and you understand what i want to say, its my first time so sorry if i have troubled you guys.

I have bought the motor so i'll have to go with it for now, for blades do you want me to craft wooden blades? 2ft long and 3 blades right. I just want to get the max out of this motor, i live near the sea so wind should not be a problem but its swirling type of wind, no particular angle so i'm worried about that.

Thanks alot again.

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by ghurd on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:40:57 PM MST
(User Info)

We understand.  Your English is fine.

Crafting 3 wood blades, 2 feet long will work.

A taller tower will help the "swirling type of wind".
Wind swirls less more meters from the ground.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by farhan on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 11:17:17 PM MST
(User Info)

Where i live the authority won't let us make big towers in our back yard, residential area. Can i use my roof top to install it? because here homes are not made of wood that they would vibrate, solid concrete buildings which i think can hold this little wind turbine. As for height what would you suggest the height should be, roof is already 12-15 meters high, but for backyard how high should i try to get best performance.

Never tried crafting wood, will give it a go, what type of wood is used for it and are the blades light or heavy? i read in many places but they do not say what wood they used.

Farhan

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Flux on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 12:38:58 AM MST
(User Info)

Mounting on a house is not ideal but should be ok with something as small as this. You may have some  trouble with transmitted noise.

Most woods will be ok. Try to get something straight grained and with no big knots.

Softwoods are easiest to deal with and common pine will be ok if you can avoid big knots, Spruce, cedar, Douglas fir etc are excellent.

For hardwoods, ash is fine but avoid the heavy ones. Avoid things like maple unless you have machine tools to work it.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by farhan on Fri May 9th, 2008 at 12:58:05 AM MST
(User Info)

Got your point thank you, please tell me why can't we use normal ceiling fan blades for this purpose, they are cheap and made of metal so long lasting and must have been checked in wind tunnels and all for best angle and performance by the companies.

For wooden blades whats the best angle at which i should carve it to better work in low winds?

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Flux on Fri May 9th, 2008 at 03:58:54 AM MST
(User Info)

Fans are designed to make wind not convert it to work. The aerofoil surfaces are back to front for use as a prop. Yes they work up to a point but the angles and profiles are wrong for good results.

There are various blade calculators that will give you the angles and widths such as Alton's. I am sure Hugh Piggott has a spreadsheet that does the same thing on his site.
At http://www.scoraigwind.com/

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by farhan on Fri May 9th, 2008 at 04:12:05 AM MST
(User Info)

thank you for your help, really appreciate it.

I'll check and read out that website for making wooden blades which i need as you suggested, the PVC one's i made will have to be kept aside then because not good as you said.

Yes fan blades are manufactured to make wind that is right, but i was just thinking its metal and its angel can be changes, i mean it can be reshaped easily, just a thought i know silly question : )

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by brianschanafelt (brianschanafelt@yahoo.com) on Fri May 9th, 2008 at 09:11:14 PM MST
(User Info)

I used fan blades at first ten to be exact.  I was also using a pm treadmill motor, would not see much more than 7 to 10 amps max. plus when the wind really gets going you will find blades a couple of hundred feet away from the generator. It is wise to invest in a book from Hugh Piggott. he has tried and tested results from the turbine he makes. I built my own and i have a 8" design 12v, and i see 25 t0 30 amps regularly on a semi windy day. plenty enough to charge my 1000 ah battery bank. enough to power this computer i am talking on right now. Plus a 36" big screen for a easy four to five hours a nite. Giving the wind blows every three or so days.

It might be a good idea to check on something that you can build in your spare time it is possible to make Hug's turbine under 1300.00 with all batteries and charge controller. plus it helps on the understanding of RE. hope some of this could help.
"something free is money well spent"



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by farhan on Sat May 10th, 2008 at 09:51:45 AM MST
(User Info)

Thank you for your reply and everything helps, small points from all make great difference so i'm very thankful.

Getting these books in Pakistan is not easy, first of all no one ships here and don't accept payment from here because no paypal or anything works here. Then the issue of higher shipping costs, then the conversion of dollars into Pakistan rupee. A book that is easy for you to buy at USD 20 or something will be more than double the cost to me if and i say if they agree to ship. But i will try to get it if anyone is coming from the US.

From all of the people's help, today i have completed and installed the wind turbine. For now i used the four 2ft PVC blades till i make the wooden blades as told by Flux, they would take time. I'm taking it a step at a time, gradually i want to change things because what happens is that if i try and do all the perfect things at once maybe i don't suceed and leave this project disheartened : ).

Its spinning quite well even in sort of low wind and it looks quite stable for now, it has less vibration and noise, the tail is working good to keep it facing the wind and i have noticed that it swirls away from very high wind by itself, why is it doing that i don't really know : ). So all in all i'm happy.

Secondly i wanted to ask can we put a voltage doubler in it to keep the volts more than 12v? i'm making contant 7-9 volts and the highest it got today was 18v.

What should i do now, just plug it directly to the battery or make some sort of charge controller, i found designs and manual on how to make it so can try.

I must have bored you all by talking so much but i really wanted that you get the right picture so that i get good help.

What should i do now please ?

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Flux on Sat May 10th, 2008 at 10:11:46 AM MST
(User Info)

If it's dc you can't make a conventional voltage doubler ( not that they are of any real use). You can use a boost converter to raise the voltage. Otherwise you will have to use it direct and only charge when the wind gets you above battery volts.

You will need a charge controller when you start producing more than you use. Until then don't bother. If you look after the load and use what you are producing you can manage without a charge controller. When you are managing to supply the sort of load you want you can start adding things that are convenient rather than essential.

If you have trouble obtaining books, Hugh does give away a lot of good information on his site free. You need to look through all of it. There are free download articles from the work he did with ITDG. There is also blade information on the site, it's a bit scattered but everything you need is there somewhere. The books are more detailed and more convenient but see what you can find.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by farhan on Sat May 10th, 2008 at 03:22:03 PM MST
(User Info)

Got your point, but why does that chispito or something and many others put charge controller first then connect to battery? maybe they are making constant good energy right?. In my case controller is not needed then for now.

One more point i wanted to ask, should i put some srt of gearing to increase rpm to make constant 12v to charge? i have been checking on the system the whole day and many times i have seen 12v, but when i check amperes they are only reaching max 1.5, is that right or am i taking the reading wrong.

till my wooden blades are ready can't i put this to any use or its not practical. i have been reading alot on sites as you have told, where ever i can find information i'm gathering it, but reading alot too is confusing because everyone is using his own ideas, one person says its the best solution, the other says its not good : )

What about building a VAWT type design and put the treadmill motor under it, would that work? like many people have made VAWT's with PVC and other materials, you may have seen those.

Thanks again, i'm really grateful for your help, never thought some one would help me this much.


[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Flux on Sun May 11th, 2008 at 12:28:27 AM MST
(User Info)

I have no idea of your wind conditions, but if you are getting 1.5A from that with pvc blades then that is not too bad.

If the problem is just lack of prop speed then gearing it will help. If you are in a low wind area then the additional gearing loss may even make it worse.

If by any chance you can find a 6v battery and try charging that you will have a better idea. If it works far better into 6v with more power ( not just amps, i.e. more than twice the amps) then you will gain with gearing or a boost converter.

"What about building a VAWT type design and put the treadmill motor under it, would that work? like many people have made VAWT's with PVC and other materials, you may have seen those."

Talk to them about it, just my personal opinion, just don't waste your time.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by farhan on Sun May 11th, 2008 at 12:19:21 PM MST
(User Info)

Ok, i won't waste time with VAWT's for this motor and setup.

Yes many times i have seen close to 1.5A, normally its between 0.7 to 0.8A. I like very close to sea in Karchi, just 5 minute drive sea shore. Thats why the swirling winds, i checked the data from the websites, they say it was 18MPH today. We do get good wind here and my home has no big buildings near it except 1 3 stories building just across the street.

Another friend of mine suggested the same thing that try and charge a 6V battery with it first, i'll try that. Yes with 4 PVC blades 2ft long i'm getting this result, i wanted 3 blades but the person i got the hub drilled from made a mistake and its not 120 degree. when i put three blades it doesn't look evenly balanced.

How much difference can i get from wooden blades? like have told you what readings i get now, max i got 1.5A and about 18V.

How to gear is what i want to know, timing belt type on pulleys or chain on sprockets. What gear ratio's, maybe that i'll have to keep trying and find out, you can't help me with this i know because till you see it you can't tell.  

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by farhan on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:31:21 PM MST
(User Info)

Hello,

As told by you all to make wooden blades, i can't seem to get that much time from work to do it for now.

I have put the gen up and put a 15amp blocking diode and just for checking a 12V 7Ah lead acid battery which i had new from a ups, as my mill hardly makes more than 1.5amp, is it the diode enough? how long should it take to charge this battery to be of any use?

Kindly please help with the gearing issue too, i'm stuck with 7-9volts, it reaches 12-14v but not for long and 2-3 times an hour hardly.

What should i do now?

[ Parent ]



Re: Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by Flux on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 01:30:43 AM MST
(User Info)

Try gearing 2:1 with a bike chain and a pair of sprockets.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Turdan DCPM 180V 4000RPM 1.5HP Treadmill Motor | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial)
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