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Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator
By mechamz, Section Wind Posted on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:20:59 AM MST
An alternator for low wind speed? or any recommendation?

Hi,
I'm planning to buy this 12Volt alternator from Energistar, and fix it to my own vertical wind turbine.
I hope the alternator can generate power at very low wind speed as what they claim here, http://energistar.com/FE1012U%20(404).pdf
Wind (m/s)= 3.2
Turbine RPM= 230
Output Current (A)= 1.8
Battery Voltage (V)= 14.2
Power (W)= 26
Power/Day= 613
I assumed the output current, A is Ah. Hence, the alternator can generate 26Wh as it run for one hour. But my current wind turbine is run at around 160rpm, so gear is needed to achieve 230rpm. I'm wondering what is the torque required for this alternator, my reply from them is "it is easily to turn"...
So now I'm hesitated to buy, because their customer support seems like not very professional. And I have read some bad review from here, http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/3/3/14933/14175
any idea or any better recommendation for low wind speed alternator.
thanks

Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator | 15 comments (15 topical)

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by mechamz on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 04:07:20 AM MST

or maybe DC-540 at http://www.windbluepower.com/Permanent_Magnet_Alternator_Wind_Blue_Low_Wind_p/dc-540.htm

but the graph doesn't show clear and detail enough, I wish to know how much of Wh can be generate at 150-250.

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by wooferhound on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:55:15 AM MST

here is a story about that Alternator
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/5/16/222936/062

W o o f -={(

[ Parent ]

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by mechamz on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 04:08:03 AM MST

I think it's more about the DC-520 High Wind Permanent Magnet Alternator.
What I'm interested to know is "DC-540 Low Wind Permanent Magnet Alternator"

thanks

[ Parent ]

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by wdyasq on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 06:24:33 AM MST

It sounds like you could get the alternator and if the VAWT doesn't work you can blame it on the alternator.

Other than the Lenz, I have yet to see a successful homebuilt VAWT. I have never seen a successful commercial VAWT. It has to be because suitable alternators are not available.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by finnsawyer on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:47:32 AM MST

Since you already have the wind turbine, why don't you build a Prony Brake and measure it's actual power output at 150 RPM? Google "Prony Brake" to see how that works.
GeoM

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by vawtman on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 04:53:58 PM MST

Hi Mechamze,
What are the turbine dimensions and flavor?Thats kinda important here.

Mark

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by mechamz on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 03:31:20 AM MST

Hi,

I'm still in design, most probably like this
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Gual_Industrie_StatoEolien_Vertical-Axis_Wind_Turbine

but smaller, because just a prototype.

[ Parent ]

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by CmeBREW on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:12:08 PM MST

Hello,
From my limited experiences, I think you may be dissapointed using that alternator with a Vawt. I suspect the rpm of that alternator is much too high for a vawt. My current Vawt is only 26" diameter and I doubt it goes over 250rpm in a 30mph giant wind storm. (But it did reach upto 52 watts during this storm yesterday)

Maybe a 12 inch diam by 10ft long (blades) might have a chance turning that fast.
Vawts only go about as fast as the wind speed going by. Quite slow.

You would have certain success getting and following ED's (www.Windstuffnow.com) Vawt alternator design with his Lenz2 Vawt. But you need to get his kit/magnets which is a VERY powerful set-up to acheive the very low rpm AND efficiency needed.

If you use smaller magnets and thus have to use more turns or thinner gauge wire, it will not work very good even if you get the 12v cut-in down to 60 or 70rpm. This is the problem I am having now. But if you follow ED's instructions perfectly, it will be an excellent (efficient) Vawt alternator to use.

Just some thoughts.

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by mechamz on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 03:29:35 AM MST

Hi,

so you were referring to alternator of engergistar or DC-540 at windbluepower?

thanks

[ Parent ]

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by CmeBREW on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 08:31:59 AM MST

I think they are both too fast. I have never seen a commercial alternator anywhere for a low rpm Vawt. Ed's is the best and only one I have seen. I tried to make my own Vawt alternator and spent hundreds only to find that I used too small of magnets (even with way more poles--20poles) and this forced me to use smaller gauge wire (20ga/60turns ea. coil) which means much more resistance over-all which means that it takes a LOT more wind force to turn the vawt rotor to reach just one amp.

The alternator is VERY important with a Vawt. It must be very effiecient to get anything useful from a Vawt. It takes big magnets used wisely. I suspect making a useful Vawt (even half the power of a similar area Hawt) is at least 10 times more difficult than making a Hawt. (from my experiences)

I made pvc vawts last year like you showed and they look impressive in free-spin, but when you put a alternator load on them , all of mine slowed down like hitting a brick wall. Most of the wind went around them instead of thru them.
Thats why I believe ED's design type is best. It is a wide open 3-blade design. It forced the wind to be scooped up (torque) and it then releases it freely with no turbulance.
ED did like a thousand experiments (and his own wind tunnel!) before reaching his Lenz2 design that he shared with everyone for free. ED is way smarter than me.
(just my thoughts at this time)

But it is fun to experiment and try-- But it is a long journey.

[ Parent ]

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by mechamz on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 03:38:33 AM MST

by the way, what is the difference buying the alternator at http://energistar.com/
and http://www.futurenergy.co.uk/ ?

I think maybe Energistar just a reseller, isn't?
or I should purchase from Futurenergy, so can have a better technical support?

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by DamonHD on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 05:42:45 AM MST

When I bought FE specifically declined to provide any tech support for the PM gen, which was fine by me, but just check.

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by wooferhound on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 06:48:25 AM MST

Here is a guy that seems to have a working VAWT design on a trailer
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/12/12/9444/1180

W o o f -={(

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by spacejunk on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:59:47 PM MST

Hello mechamz,
Further to my previous post http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/3/3/14933/14175 that you refer to.
I have since modified the tail on my FE1048 48V Futurenergy Turbine so that it stayed pointed at the wind and furled out at approximately the rated power (1000W) which should correspond to the rated wind speed of 12.5m/s.
Thus the turbine now averaged about 1000W (~15A ave at 57V) in high wind.
A vast improvement on the original performance.
However......
We had Gail-Force (temperature ~10degC)winds here last week up to 160Kph which had the turbine continuously producing 10A-20A into 57V-60V.
As a result the turbine has now burnt out windings that have shorted to the stator.
I have not dismantled the stator as yet, but only measured with the DVM.
Also, for your application, the PMG has a lot of heavy COGGING, that I reckon would make it unsuitable for Hydro Generation.

Conclusions:
Beware of Futurenergy Products !
1. Futurenegy PMG may not be suitable for Hydro.
- due to excessive cogging.
- High start up RPM
2. Futurenegy PMG may not be capable of more than about 600W-800W in cool weather.
- The encaptulated PMG design may not dissipate the heat generated.
- This would explain why FE persist with the short tail on their Turbines,
limiting the real-world power output to far less than their rated,
to avoid warranty claims.
3. Poor support from Futurenergy Service department...hence my posts.
- They will use any lame excuse they can to negate their warranty responsibility.

PS.. I would love to hear from anyone that experience with the other products sold by Energistar.. as I need to replace my Burnt-Out Futurenergy PMG with something that is capable.
Suggestion: http://www.ecoinnovation.co.nz/c-6-hydro.aspx

Joe
The poor pay twice.

Re: Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by spacejunk on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 06:52:06 AM MST

Hello, just updating...Upon inspection, the FE1048 is indeed fried.
And it's connected in STAR not DELTA (as FE had told me). Again my guess is that the 24V PMG is Delta, 48 V Star. It'll probably cast the same to have it re-wound as buy a new one.
Joe

The poor pay twice.
[ Parent ]

Futurenergy Permanent Magnet Generator | 15 comments (15 topical)

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