Newbie plans 10' with custom stator hopes 4 700w
By MAXial dreamer, Section Wind Posted on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 11:00:36 AM MST
Hi

I've been pondering axial flux wind turbines for a couple years now and I have some ideas now that I have a place to erect.  I'm planning a 48v 10 footer like otherpowers but i want to experiment with torro windings(even though it looks like lots of work) and 1/2" cubes with 26 lift lbs. I'm looking to stick with the 12" rotor but have a like 38 1/2" cubes in a row each. I think thats overkill but I can allways open up the air gap if needed besides their like 60 cents. My stator should end up 7/16 axial x 5/8 thick.  The recipe calls for one #17 x 140 turns x three coils per phase = 9 coils.   As I understand it that should give me the same volts but with a huge amp drop as my coils will average 1.5 in or so vrs 8"ish. So it would appear I would need to add alot more coils in parrallel to each phase.  Just not sure how many  I can always expand to 13" rotors or add more row(plenty of room lol) to stay within my optimum stator dimensions.  So my questions are how many more coils should I add(as many as it takes to get to 6 lbs), and hows increasing magnetic poles and rotor speed by increasing circumferance factor in? I read some studies that axial flux with high pole counts are more effecient than radial flux. P.S. I'd like to thank all you guys who so generously make your knowledge available!

Newbie plans 10' with custom stator hopes 4 700w | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#1) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 05:10:19 AM MST (User Info)

I meant, My stator should end up 7/16 thick x 5/8 axial or vertical and continuous. not vise versa "windpower" at least its not crack!

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#2) by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 05:43:32 AM MST (User Info) http://wooferhound.com

I understand "7/16 thick", but i don't understand "5/8 axial or vertical and continuous" I don't understand 38 magnets and 9 coils W o o f -={( [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#3) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 06:26:10 AM MST (User Info)

picture a hoop  wind wire around it till u complete the hoop. thats it just broken up in different coils /16x5/8 would be the apx. od of the windings i just figured it would give me good spacing, should it be im multiples of 2 and 3. "windpower" at least its not crack! [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#4) by electrondady1 on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 06:26:20 AM MST (User Info)

if you are trying to build a 3 phase alternator the pole count must be divisible by both 3 and 4 your rotor is big enough to carry 38 1/2" poles and have a similar mag spacing. but it won't work out evenly. you would need to reduce your pole count to 36 and build 27 coils. as well, you will need to do a test coil(s) to learn the number of turns and wire gauge that will provide you with your desired cut in speed . [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#5) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 06:35:52 AM MST (User Info)

Thanks 4 the tip.  lets see 140 x 27=3780windings "windpower" at least its not crack! [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#6) by electrondady1 on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 06:41:37 AM MST (User Info)

sorry , i misunderstood, you are not building an axial flux devise. perhaps you could provide a sketch of your layout as it is not obvious. [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#7) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 07:29:38 AM MST (User Info)

you kinda did it is still a axial machine it just has different winding method the article even suggests opposing poles to be selected. N vrs N S vrs S instead of NS SN This would not require jacking rotors. http://www.motordesignsolutions.com/pdf/iemdc03_ronghai.pdf see pg2 fig.3 +4 "B. Dual-rotor, Toroidally-wound, Slotted, AFPM Machines The dual rotor axial flux surface mounted PM machine structure is illustrated in Fig. 3 and the flux distribution is depicted in Fig. 4. The two disc shaped rotors carrying axially magnetized magnets mounted on the inner surfaces of the rotors are assembled on both sides of the stator structure with toroidal or gramme type windings. Similar to toroidally wound RFPM machine, the North-North (NN) type magnet arrangement required by the toroidal windings is used in this" "windpower" at least its not crack! [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#8) by TomW on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 08:02:44 AM MST (User Info)

Uh, have you tried to actually wind a toroid as a test? Not a trivial undertaking, especially compared to a coil winder as used by most here. I cannot help but see this .PDF as anything more than another academic tossing theory at a "problem" that does not actually exist. Yet another example of what I tend to think of as "over thinking the plumbing". Looks pretty involved to gain "something". Someone[s] suggested this long long ago but it never got built that I recall so, perhaps, there are some non trivial "gotchas" to do it. Maybe in a factory manufacturing process it could be useful but so many miss the fact that construction techniques for industry do not cross over to the DIY garage builders this site is focused on. Anyway, good luck and keep us posted when [not if] you build it. Tom "Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans with custom stator hopes 4 700w (3.00 / 0) (#11) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 08:45:18 AM MST (User Info)

The purpose of the article was to conpare the drum (radial) vrs the plate (axial) machines but drawing 2 and 3 are basic machine I have in mind. "windpower" at least its not crack! [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans 10' with (3.00 / 0) (#9) by wpowokal on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 08:04:03 AM MST (User Info)

I can not understand your winding details but the subject says 10' and 4700W, What wind speed do you have to get that wattage from a 10' turbine? I'm always interested in people who can think outside the box so look forward to an explination of your winding method. allan down under A life lived in fear is a life half lived.

Re: Newbie plans 10' with (3.00 / 0) (#10) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 08:40:41 AM MST (User Info)

Oh meant hopes (4)for 700w but 800w would be nice;) As far as my winding technique I have a couple ideas in mind.  I will let you guys know what I settle on.  Its challenging for a multitude of reasons.   "windpower" at least its not crack! [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans 10' with (3.00 / 0) (#12) by TomW on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 08:59:49 AM MST (User Info)

MAX; Oh meant hopes (4)for 700w but 800w would be nice;) A perfect example of why we discourage the use of "texting" shorthand type posts. Taking the time to type that one out would have saved you the time to type the clarification, for example. Plus, a lot of these guys are old farts [I know Allan is!] who don't use those devices so don't know the "code" Proper spelling and grammar go a long way towards clear communication. Just a bit of advice to help make your time here more profitable mining information. Tom "Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans 10' with (3.00 / 0) (#13) by Flux on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 09:07:24 AM MST (User Info)

I also thought it was 4700W, this modern language is difficult to follow. Yes I am sure you can do it as a Torus in about 4 forms, some with teeth and some without. It will be hard work and at best you may save 30% on magnets but those little tiny cubes are not going to make life very easy. Pull in Lbs is meaningless so that doesn't give us much of a clue. Using a Torus you shouldn't be using the common 12/9 dual rotor as a guide, that is not the way to do it. There is nothing magic about the 12 0r 13" disc diameter either so I wouldn't limit yourself by that. I think a well designed torus should work quite well, but the actual performance will be no different from simpler constructions and unless you do something with the matching of the load the efficiency will be the same. Don't thank any of us for help, nothing posted here is going to be much help to you and you will have to start from scratch rather than try to adapt windings for a different type of machine. Good luck and keep us posted. Flux [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans 10' with (3.00 / 0) (#14) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 06:39:26 PM MST (User Info)

the 1/2in cubes are Grade N45, Brmax: 13200 At this point I am trying to figure what wire size to go with and how much I need to buy.  Once I've built the altenator and tested it out, I'm open to adjusting my wingspan diameter accordinglly.  But the last think I want to do is fudge it and burn up my stator! "windpower" at least its not crack! [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans 10' with (3.00 / 0) (#15) by Flux on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 at 01:25:20 AM MST (User Info)

I can't easily check any figures for a torus but with 32 of those cube magnets per disc ( 64 total) you are way below what is needed for a 10ft rotor using an ironless machine. Even with the torus I don't think you will be even near to handling a 10ft prop. You can't settle a winding without deciding a speed so you have a chicken and egg situation. If you build the alternator for 10ft and miss then it will be too slow to fit smaller blades. I am inclined to think you would probably match an 8ft machine reasonably well. The core will cost you much more than sensible magnets but it will be interesting. Flux [ Parent ]

Re: Newbie plans 10' with (3.00 / 0) (#17) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 11:04:21 AM MST (User Info)

I see the 10' turbine uses 12 n40 2"x1x.5 magnets that would 72 1/2in cubes per rotor.  For now it looks like I'll be using 48 n45 cubes per rotor.  looks hard to tell what dia blades this machine will handle. "windpower" at least its not crack! [ Parent ]

Newbie plans 10' with custom stator hopes 700w (3.00 / 0) (#16) by MAXial dreamer (ihearbs@yahoo.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:08:13 AM MST (User Info)

I have 96 magnets so that gives me 48 per rotor.  I may go with two rows of magnets or a single ron on a larger rotor a 24" rotor would give me 75in cir. 1.57"per magnet.  How close can you space them before they cancel out flux.  Ive been playing with wire.  The windings aren't tough but connecting dozens of coils may be. "windpower" at least its not crack!

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