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Alien PTV picture as requested
By windstuffnow, Section Diaries Posted on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 02:20:34 PM MST
...

Here is a peek at the Alien PTV 3 wheel project.... Scratch built with the exception of the S10 spindles and brakes ( wheels of course ). This is 6 weeks into the project starting with an idea and a pile of steel....
Alien... because it looks kind of weird and I'm a bit of a SCIFI nut ... PTV because it is a "Personal Transportation Vehicle"

The front suspension incorporates some Harley coil overs with 300 lb springs mounted inboard for space, the rear has a single sided swing arm with an over wheel spring system because of the limited space. The motor is a D&D 10 Hp continuous, 40hp peak. Batteries are the Optima D31 deep cycle AGM chosen to keep the weight down. Altrax controller, reverse contactors and chain drive using a 5 to 1 ratio.
I have some finish welding to do, brackets, steering and misc then its comming appart to be painted piece by piece. I plan a body for it but it won't be until winter when I start fabricating for this. I'm planning a "1 off" foam and fiberglass sectioned panel body for it. I'm considering removing the overhead bars and building a tilt up windscreen section that will fully enclose the unit for extended season use.
I'll be adding a page to my site for the project in the near future...
.

Alien PTV picture as requested | 44 comments (44 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:34:21 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Here is a side view, gives you a better idea of how odd it is....

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by wiredwrong on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 04:55:46 PM MST
(User Info)

Very Cool, I cant wait to see the page you put up about it, what range and top speed are you aiming for? Looks like you have it well planed. I like the tilt up windscreen thought.
Randy OKC,OK
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 07:57:43 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

With that motor and the 300 amp restriction on the controller I don't expect it will do much over 70 mph. At 70 mph and those batteries it will have a range of about 20 miles. At 50 mph it should go 50 miles and up to 70 miles at 40 mph. So it will depend on where and how you drive it.

Most of my commutes are between 5 and 15 miles round trip and an ocassional 30 mile jaunt to the local tool outlet ( similar to Harbor freight ). It should do everything I need from groceries to parts I need.

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by wiredwrong on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:17:35 PM MST
(User Info)

That is very cool, the only other question I had and forgot to ask is what voltage are you going to run it at?

Randy OKC,OK
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:28:29 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

6 12 volt optima's for a 72 volt system. They'll be sitting on the "passengers side" inside a box.
.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by ghurd on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 09:20:32 PM MST
(User Info)

Just thinking out loud...
Batteries in line where the motor is shown.
Motor above them, below the mono-shock.

Two seats.
Car Pool lane?

Why not a 'Real VW' front axle assembly?
G-

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 09:49:50 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

It could be arranged as a 2 seater, the batteries couldn't be placed in the back though. A trike requires a 60/40 CG to make it stable. If the weight was on the rear wheel it would have tendencies to get tippy in a corner braking situation ( similar to a standard trike ). Hard cornering would actually lift one front wheel. The VW beam is to narrow, the standard wheel stance is around 60 inches for most cars, VW's were about 58 or there about. The wheel stance on this one is 80 inches and most of the weight will be close to the front maintaining the 60/40 CG.

Trikes are the future of the personal commuting vehicals. There is alot of work being done in this area. BMW, Volkswagon, Honda are all working on them as well as offspring companies such as the "T-Rex" in Canada.

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 12:18:44 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Looks like
Rear wheel drive
and Front Wheel Steering ?

W o o f -={(

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by coldspot on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 01:34:02 PM MST
(User Info)

ED-
you, Do the greatest projects !!!!!
WOW !!!
I'm dreaming about something along those lines.
But, still only at the bikes and parts point.

Having to move again, myself, maybe not the shed/shop stuff, getting anything done is just getting harder and even farther from what is real in my life.

Anyway,
Another WINNER!!!

$0.02
:)

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 02:17:10 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

If I had used a motorcycle as the rear suspension and drive this could have been driveable a couple weeks ago. I've been tossing the idea around about building another one using something in the 400-500cc range.

I have all the jigs made up for this one so the next one would actually go a little quicker.

This is a little bigger than a Smart car, it has a 90 inch wheel base, from nose to tail is 11 ft long and the wide front wheel stance is 80 inches wheel to wheel ( outside tires ).

It's been a fun project....

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 02:08:31 PM MST
(User Info)

Awesome ED!
That is progressing nicely. I suppose steering is in the back. I bet you can even make that street legal especially now at this time.
You will be the talk of the town driving that around. It sorta reminds me of a modern day "Monsters sportster hot rod". (I can hear the music)

What freaks me out though, is how the rear is suspended in mid air like that!!
Did you also figure out about anti-gravity phenomenona? If you did, you may not even need the wheels!

Looking forward to your progression of that impressive project.

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 02:44:30 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

Yep, forget the rest of it, just give us the secret of the anti-grav!

You'll have squeezed a VAWT in there somewhere, I know it! B^>

Rgds

Damon

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by TomW on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 04:14:29 PM MST
(User Info)

CME;

You obviously are not familiar with modern monoshock swing arm motorcycle rear suspensions.

Pretty common these days to have a one sided support for the swing arm.

It does look sweet.

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 04:23:57 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

did you leave room for some solar panels

W o o f -={(

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by tecker on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 05:34:51 PM MST
(User Info)

I don't see the wind tubine I'm surprised . I see an optima there good choice.

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:22:37 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Ghurd... the buttons under the seat... easy reach as long as I don't get the other button confused for the proton torpedo's... could be a mess.

Tecker... The turbine is partially built, still needs the alternator to be completed... actually behind the Trike out of the picture... It's a large Lenz2 of course ( I'm sure you didn't expect anything less... ) ;O)

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by tecker on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 01:47:01 AM MST
(User Info)

I 'd like to see the charger too but I was thinking pick up the back pressure form the passenger build out and duct it across some moderate speed drum turbine .You have to punch the frame through the air any how .

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by ghurd on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 06:48:16 PM MST
(User Info)

I don't see how a critical reaction in the warp core will be allow ejection, should the need arise.
Maybe that's just me.
G-

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by wdyasq on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:20:45 PM MST
(User Info)

" I'm planning a "1 off" foam and fiberglass sectioned panel body for it."

Ed,

There sure is a lot of area one could do 'conical projection' on and get a very smooth and quick surface on. The 'fill-in' areas could be foam/glass or shaped metal.

The two choices I would have would be thin ply and then veneer for the '3D' sections or aluminum with shaped sections but my skills are in boats, airplanes and old cars. I think wood or foam/glass will be a lot more quiet than metal.

For the floor-pan and bulkheads look at 'Alumalite' panels. They are an aluminum skinned cor-plast core product with amazing stiffness and little weight.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#39)
by spinningmagnets (velmis1450bc(at)aol(dot)com) on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 12:44:23 PM MST
(User Info)

Ron, you sound like you have experience with this! I certainly do not, but I am fascinated by this.

Ed, I like how the rear swingarm allows you to easily change a flat tire, and all the wheels are the same (even if the spare has to be brought to you) I have had flat motorcycles picked up to change the flat at home, not fun.

You probably already have set ideas for the body you plan on making, but I wanted to make something similar in the future, so here are some possibly fun links:

http://www.7gen.com/book/revivifying-lectra-motorcycle/cabin-scooter-design-resources-around-interne t/23570
Dozens of home-made fairing links

http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/bubbles/hpvbubbles.htm
making a home-made clear plastic bubble canopy

http://visforvoltage.org/blog/reikiman/2927
list of aerodynamics links from the web about altering car bodies

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3766&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
aerodynamics and fairings thread

There's a lot of development work going on about small series-hybrid generator-trailers to extend the range of an EV for occasional long trips. Also allows on-board battery pack to be the smallest possible for actual daily trips

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#41)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 05:21:37 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Thanks for the links... I especially liked the one for making plastic bubbles.

One of my requirements while designing the rear swing arm was to be able to change the wheel easily. It took several designs and quite a few hours work to settle on the one I built. It was quite a challenge.

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by TheCasualTraveler (a.miklos@yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 08:30:56 PM MST
(User Info) http://thecasualtraveler.com/wind.htm

Very nice. I like the simplicity. Is this the start of RoadStuffNow?
Andy

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 at 09:31:23 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

I spent 25 years building prototypes, customs, street rods and restorations... not likely I'll go back to that as a profession again....

I've been away from the automotive field for 20 years now and playing with this is fun again, building another one might be just as fun... 20 of them? Not fun anymore... I'm not as spry as I once was back when... I still like the design work and building all sorts of things... that's what keeps me going.

This project follows the RE stuff which also makes it fun and challenging.

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by Capt Slog (Capt.Slog(at this)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 02:10:25 AM MST
(User Info)

Excelent work Ed.

I think we're going to see more of these in times to come, I'm surprised that the major manufacturers are so slow off the mark.

.
"Slowly changing the world, one watt at a time!"

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by dlenox (dlenox@briery.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 05:12:46 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.briery.com/wind_turbine

Ed,

Good luck with your build!

I completed my Vortex - a scratch built 3 wheeled trike - last year and have it insured, licensed and on the road. Over the last year I have put about 3000 miles on it. There are only 3 others completed in the world! It was a 2.5 year labor of love.

Have had it in a couple of car shows, and this summer it was at Carlisle.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but if you are interested I have lots of details on the build here: http:://www.briery.com/vortex

Here are a couple of pictures of it:

Dan Lenox

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by electrondady1 on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 07:19:35 AM MST
(User Info)

ed,
what sort of devise controls the speed.

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 07:39:46 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

It's a fancy 5k pot, called the PB-6. Connects to the controller and is mechanically coupled to the accelerator pedal. It also has a high pedal cut off switch for safety and coasting.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 07:21:12 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Very nice Dan! I ran across your site while searching for Reverse trikes and similar designs. Saved a couple pictures of it and a couple views of the rear suspension.

Did you have a set of plans to work from? I don't remember if there were plans offered for it...

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by dlenox (dlenox@briery.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 08:52:15 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.briery.com/wind_turbine

Ed,

Yes the vehicle is called a Vortex and plans are available at http://www.vortexplans.com

I have no affiliation with the selling of the plans. A guy named Steven Pombo out in California designed it back mid 80's, however to date mine is only the 4th ever completed... Not sure why it is a good design, much better than the Trimagnum and others.

It was a lot of work, but in the end worth it.

Dan Lenox

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#30)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 11:13:27 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

I looked at the trimagnum also have the plans for the Trimuter I purchased back in the early 80's... didn't really like the design and it uses the rear sub assembly from an old Datsun 510 so the plans are basically useless now although he still sells them.

I looked at the newest one, construction pictures. That is so over engineered it's pathetic. It looks like he started building without a plan and kept adding things to overcome design problems. It's easy to engineer a complicated design, it's difficult to design a simple design. I like to keep things simple which takes alot more design work but is well worth the effort in the end.

Here are a couple shots of the rear swing arm assembly...

Not the best pictures but it gives you a general idea... rear drum brakes from my old 88 S10. The control arm bushings have a different slot arrangement on each side, one side adjusts camber the other side adjusts toe.

I'm working on the steering using a scavanged 79 Chevette rack and pinion which needs to be extended to match the A arm geometery.

The A arms are scratch built, assembled in jigs then welded.
.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#31)
by Bruce S (bruce(dot)stahl <at>gmail (dot)(com)) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 01:47:19 PM MST
(User Info)

Ed;
I'm certain it's camera angle, but the gearing for the tire chain, seems kind of close to the support weld. Will you also be using an idler pulley to keep chain flex to a minnimum?

Bruce S
Sure beats our little 550watter of our all the death!!

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#33)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 05:03:29 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

CasualTraveler: Yes it would make a little difference in energy savings and extending the range a couple miles. I figure I'd give up a little range for looks... it will also handle a little better when I want to blow off a few watts and play... ;O)

Bruce S: There is enough room to handle 5 inches of rear wheel movement so it shouldn't be a problem. The chain hangs quite a ways below the pivot, there will be a chain guide on the top at the pivot incase it gets sloppy at some point and/or deceleration. It is an option to add an idler if needed.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#32)
by TheCasualTraveler (a.miklos@yahoo.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 03:05:12 PM MST
(User Info) http://thecasualtraveler.com/wind.htm

Couldn't agree more with what you say about simple designs.

One thing though, the size of the wheels and tires surprises me. For an electric car, wouldn't it be better to save weight by using narrower (motorcycle) tires?
Andy
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#34)
by dlenox (dlenox@briery.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 05:44:52 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.briery.com/wind_turbine

CasualTraveler,

motorcycle wheels and crowned tires can not take the lateral forces that automotive wheels and tires can.

if he used a crowned tire it would only last 5k miles or so.

dan

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#35)
by TomW on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 06:04:56 PM MST
(User Info)

Good but subtle point, that.

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by dlenox (dlenox@briery.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 08:56:33 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.briery.com/wind_turbine

BTW:

The plansets are about 100 pages (Vortex, Trimagnum, Doran, etc), and you can only stuff so much information into a package that size. That is why I put up the details and thought process of building mine, so others can see a good example of what time/costs/tools/experience it takes to build something similar.

I recently got the XR3 planset and RQ Riley also included some CD's and DVD, haven't looked at content yet but sure that it helps out builders.

Dan

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by dlenox (dlenox@briery.com) on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 at 09:01:27 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.briery.com/wind_turbine

Ed,

I'd be interested in seeing a picture of your swing arm for the rear driven wheel, any chance on posting a picture of it?

You did a nice job on the front upper/lower control arms, were those bought or did you weld them up yourself? I used Triumph Spitfire arms and rack/pinion steering, very light weight and easy to work with/get parts for.

Dan

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#36)
by ricksure on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 05:10:10 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Ed.
How easy is it to get a home built vehicle licenced and certified for the road?
Also do these type of vehicles require a bike licence /helmet?
Looks good!
Rick

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#37)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 07:00:55 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

I'm not sure exactly as I've never gone this route... From what I understand, you have it inspected by the State Police, then apply for a title from the DMV. I hear the process takes 6 to 8 weeks.

Anything with less than 4 wheels is registered as a motorcycle. Licience and rules apply.

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#38)
by TomW on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 11:36:27 AM MST
(User Info)

Ed;

When I built my trike from half Oldsmobile Toronado front end and half Suzuki KZ1000 steering head we did front fork type steering and the "title" was for a modified Suzuki MC. It needed a once over by a transportation official which was mostly lights and brakes.

The trick was using enough of the crotch rocket to be modifying or rebuilding it rather than scratch built title. The frame # on the steering head from the bike was enough.

That was a long time ago.

Nobody would ride with me on it.

It was scary fast and a tad squirrelly at much over 100 mph. I probably fractured your weight distribution ratio by several factors.

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#44)
by dlenox (dlenox@briery.com) on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 02:39:01 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.briery.com/wind_turbine

My Vortex that I built used no part of the existing motorcycle.

It was a pretty simple process (here in WV) to have a VIN # assigned to it, get title/registration/insurance. Other states vary with difficulty.

Basically the State Police inspect it to see if it has an existing vin, if not they sign off on it. That form goes to DMV and they assign it a vin.

Next in the process is acquiring a title (pictures are required), with that you can purchase insurance, register it and get it inspected.

Insurance is through Progressive.com, home built can only get liability, and currently a full year costs me $280.

Reverse trike designs want to have minimum of 60% weight on the front tires for good stability. I have had mine up to 100mph and it went dead straight, no shimmy or shake!

Dan Lenox

[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#40)
by Micheal on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 07:11:22 PM MST
(User Info)

First off I have to say WOW that kicks some real @ss!

I used to rack my brain trying to figure out a way to get a car to move with out making the powers to be rich. Say 80 mpg or a stirling engine. Maybe electric.

The fact that your building your own pretty much hits home to the fact that a person can't buy anything that does not look like a golf cart. Sure there are Tons and Tons of 10 year cars. Ten year cars are cars that will solve the worlds problems in some minor way in ten years. Problem is after the ten years are up there are none of the promised cars for sale. Only more cars that will be ready for production in ten years.

So my plan was to come up with some killer design and make one for myself, as I was looking for hints or ideas I stumbled across this site and was blown away at the reality of high mpg cars that never ever will be sold in the USA.

My hats off to Ed wish we were neighbors.

here is that site http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=2096

I am sure the site will be down soon so as to not upset people. Just a gut feeling.

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#42)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 05:36:47 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Thanks Michael, I figure the only way I will get what I want is if I build it myself. I've seen concept cars over the years that I would buy in an instant if they ever brought them to market. The technology to achieve 60 - 80+ mpg has been around for a very long time, as with the hybrid concept ( patented in 1906 ). It all boils down to money...

.

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Alien PTV picture as requested (3.00 / 0) (#43)
by phil b (philb7369at-no-more spam-yahoo.com) on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 10:35:56 AM MST
(User Info)

Really Nice! I can't wait to see what it will do!
It's simple, but robust.
BTW, if you come up with a set of plans, sign me up now.

Phil

Alien PTV picture as requested | 44 comments (44 topical, 0 editorial)

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