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Another Month, Another Front Page Poll


By wooferhound, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 04:42:49 AM MST
How Big is Your Battery Bank using a 12volt reference

I change the Front Page Poll question about the 21st of each month and it's that time again. The old front page poll was "What is your Biggest Working Prop?". The results  can be seen here. If you haven't voted this question then you can do that here too.....
http://www.fieldlines.com/poll/1214066881_mOBfqCAY

The New Poll Question is "How Big is your Battery Bank?", answer like you have a 12 volt system. This poll is not on this story page but is found on the lower righthand side of any of the main Front Pages, use your Back Button.

The poll section normally appears on the righthand side of the Main Page (not this page), at the bottom of the Info areas on that side. You must have "Polls" enabled to be able to see them. If you don't see the Polls section then enable them this way...
On the right side of this page find the Menu Box with your Username on it.
Inside that box click the menu item for "Display Preferences"
At the bottom of that page is a listing for "Boxes"
Make sure the "Poll" box is Checked
The front page Poll will now display on all your Main pages.
Save your new Settings.

Helpful Tip:
While you are in "Display Preferences" you should set
"Number of story summaries to show"  to 50
"Number of story titles to show" also to 50
This makes the Forum easier to use because 50 story titles will display on the Main Pages instead of only 8 which is the default for new users.

Another Month, Another Front Page Poll | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by wpowokal on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 03:53:34 AM MST
(User Info)

A) no reference to voltage therefore irrevevent
B) 1000 A/h is too low for a serious system

allan down under
A life lived in fear is a life half lived.



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Bruce S (bruce(dot)stahl <at>gmail (dot)(com)) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 07:43:12 AM MST
(User Info)

Allan;
  Your stuff is always a good read.
 I, however, respectfully disagree with the "1000 A/h is too low for serious system.
A lot of stuff can be taken off-grid with a system much lower than this amount.

Cheers
Bruce S


[ Parent ]



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 09:46:26 PM MST
(User Info)

A) no reference to voltage therefore irrevevent

Huh?

The question was "... scaled to 12 volt"

I.e. if you have 200 AH at 48V you'd answer 800 AH.

So (assuming the respondents noticed that and answered correctly) it's all comparable.

[ Parent ]



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 01:07:57 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

It didn't say 'scaled to 12V' until after that comment (and mine) were posted!  B^>

Rgds

Damon

[ Parent ]



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 09:17:41 AM MST
(User Info)

Sorry.  I didn't get around to reading it until after the change.

[ Parent ]


Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by bob g on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 08:26:27 AM MST
(User Info)

1000 amp/hrs might be seen as too low for a serious battery system, but

i see no reason not to be serious about getting by with no more than 1000amp/hrs
and doing so quite nicely!

yes it will take some load scheduling and management, and serious conservation, but

it just galls me no end to see writeups in magazines about so called "green" installations that cost the owner something north of 100,000 dollars!!
with all the bells and whistles and no effort at all to schedule a darn thing.

they want to live just as they did on the grid, with no thinking or concern about anything and all the while stand with their chest sticking out proclaiming to their friends and all the world...

"look at me!!! i am green"

ya, right!!!

rant over :)

bob g

ps. my system will be ~800-1000amp/hrs at 24 volts, driven by solar/wind/changfa dual fueled, and a serious effort to conserve, schedule and manage the system/loads.



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by RUFUS (RFRUFUS@AOL.COM) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 01:23:07 PM MST
(User Info)

RIGHT ON BOB!
           RUFUS


[ Parent ]


Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 01:29:44 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

Dead right.

(Though my spending on PV is, in spite of conservation, way too high and not over yet!)

Rgds

Damon

[ Parent ]



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by veewee77 on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 09:23:35 AM MST
(User Info)

When talking to someone about going off-grid, the very first thing I talk to them about is conservation. Get that power bill as low as you can and still be comfortable and then start to consider sizing the system. If the guy has the doh, and don't care what it costs, do what he wants. However most people that are willing to go completely off-grid already know that there are compromises to make. It doesn't mean you have to go completely nutz. Many do. But, living comfortably off-grid is a bit harder than living reasonable off-grid.

JMHO - YMMV

Doug

[ Parent ]



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Jeff (ruralmcguyver at yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 11:57:09 AM MST
(User Info)

I have to agree, I "got by" aith 460 A/h storage for over a year. Granted, mostly because I had to, but scheduling & conservation in other areas made it much more than "roughing it". My battery array was upgraded a little this 4th of July!
Rural McG


Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by wpowokal on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 at 06:48:28 PM MST
(User Info)

There are many facrtors to oncider in sizing a battery bank, A/h alone is not enough, voltage comes into it then we have KW's of stored capacity.

Just a few..
Type of battery.

System voltage.

Stored capacity Verses number of days autonomy.

How deep you are prepared to discharge them daily and those extended periods with little incomming power to recharge.

The above goes to life expectancy of batteries.

Maxium load you expect to draw, ie starting a pump/fridge etc and therefore inverter size.

Where you live ie what are your climatic conditions, which will affect your loads.

Who you live with, dogs are less demanding on power than wives.

And so it goes on.....

Anyway as I said on irc full points to Woof for taking the trouble to produce and post a monthly pole.

allan down under

A life lived in fear is a life half lived.



how large do you really need? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 04:49:00 AM MST
(User Info)

Who you live with, dogs are less demanding on power than wives.
Ah....yes! there you have it! Were it not for my
wife and kids....grandkids....I and a lot of others have the notion (delusion?)that we could
live completely off grid....altho it would be a
lonely life....I'm thinking.....(Hey this isn't
a wish)no way!
....and learning how to cope with and educating
people  and their unreasonable demands is the key
to it all (and myself included).
( :>) Norm
[ Parent ]


Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 05:59:50 AM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

My dogs house has heating pads on the walls and a Floodlight pointed down at him so he feels good and comfortable in our mild Alabama Winters. He is a lucky dog but demanding powerwise.
W o o f -={(

[ Parent ]


Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by ruddycrazy on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 04:55:00 AM MST
(User Info)

What this pole as allan put's it is how many arrays and what size are they...

For example my house array is only 600AH but there is 12  2 volt 600 ah sonnenscheins

My shed array is....

  1. ah main array
  2. ah second array
and the only array not on 24 volts is my nife array which is on 16 volts still going after 4 years when I got the nifes for free.

Cheers Bryan



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by ricksure on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 04:31:16 PM MST
(User Info)

I use six 8D batteries. I know these are not the recommended, but I get these free.
They are used batteries from large diesel generating sets.

[ Parent ]


Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by bobshau on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 07:39:37 PM MST
(User Info)

My rotor diameter is 20 feet and has been operating for about 12 mo.

Battery bank is750ah; I'm grid conected and sell all that I don't use.
bob



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Wheeler (Dmosino@yahoo.com) on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 10:08:52 PM MST
(User Info)

Since I am new to this, how do I determine my ampr. for 24 t-125 batteries in a 24v system? what does the T-125 stand for?



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by wpowokal on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 10:40:07 PM MST
(User Info)

Trogan list T125 as 6v 260A/h batteries, so in a 24v system you would have 4 in series. That would give 24V @ 260A/h, now for 24 batteries you would have 6 strings of 4 in series so thats 6 X 260 A/h or 1560 A/h storage aproximatly 26 Kw storage.

Allan down under
A life lived in fear is a life half lived.
[ Parent ]



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 03:17:30 AM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

and then Scaled to 12 volts would double it to 3120 amphours
W o o f -={(

[ Parent ]


Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by Wheeler (Dmosino@yahoo.com) on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 at 08:36:01 PM MST
(User Info)

Thank you Woof, maybe some time in the near future I will be able to carry on a conversation about my solar system.

[ Parent ]


Vexing opportunity. (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 at 10:11:39 PM MST
(User Info)

Sigh.

Just a few days ago I overheard the comment that the shipping company hadn't picked up the batteries rotated out of the UPS after 5 years of service.  My ears perked up...

Sure enough:  a pallet containing one layer and most of another of batteries.  36 Exide  Sprinter S12V285Fs.  (Checked several with a multitester and they seemed to be fully charged.  About 10 kWHr at the 1 hour rate (and rated for a 15-minute discharge as well).  Maybe 45 pounds each (about a ton total).  Design life 10-12 years, rated service life (as UPS) 8 years.  AGM so you can use 'em upright or on their sides, and transport them with no special care except to see that they don't get shorted.

We've had four outages in the past couple months.  Tripped-out transformer breaker twice, replacement of transformer with a bigger one, and re-stringing of the building wiring to take advantage of the additional power (since it was too wimpy for what we're doing with it - or will be shortly).  Along with previous outages they've probably been through about 6 deep cycles in their lives - just enough to get 'em "trained".

I'd so DEARLY love to take 'em off the company's hands for scrap prices.  It would be ballpark 6 grand worth of batteries probably only half used up and enough capacity to do a fine initial install on an RE system.  Get these and I save maybe half the cost on the initial system.  (Even if they don't enjoy repeated deep cycling they'd still probably last until we'd been settled in to the NV place full time for a while, since we don't get out there all that often and the place idles under 3 kWHr/day when unoccupied, even in heating season.)

But I'm NOT READY for 'em NOW.  B-(  No space to store 'em, would have to put a line-powered charger on 'em to make up self-discharge, might need to improvise connectors (since they seem to use an oddball), etc.

So I didn't pursue them.  Instead I intend to talk to the facilities manager and find out:
 - When we next expect to rotate some out.  (We've got several buildings.)
 - Whether I can take/buy the retired cells.  (California.  Disposal regs?)
 - Who the vendor / service company on the UPS is.  (Given this is Silicon Valley
   they probably have a lot of customers and are doing similar rotate-outs
   much of the time.)

At a place I once worked there was the concept of a "vexing opportunity" - one that had more cost than value, such as distraction from the core project or loss of better opportunities you had to drop to pursue the vexing one.

Damn!



Re: Another Month, Another Front Page Poll (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by martin1 on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 05:20:01 PM MST
(User Info)

A 60Ah starter battery works fine for me.



Another Month, Another Front Page Poll | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial)
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