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Nearby wind farm coming on-line


By elt, Section Wind
Posted on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 07:46:38 PM MST
low blows and some progress in western New York

I've been seeing wind turbine parts being trucked south for almost a year. I didn't know that they've been building like crazy over the Winter and through the Spring but driving around this week I saw that a nearby wind farm has (at least) two 2 Megawatt mills up and running.

It was hard to find any info on the site as there were more pro- and anti- wind web sites about on the location (Cohocton, NY) than specs about the facility. Even the "official site" had plenty on property values and bird kills but nothing on capacity or physical specs. I did find his on a fan site-


The project will include approx. 41 wind turbines, each with a generating capacity of 2.0 MW. Each wind turbine will include an 87-meter (285 foot) diameter, three-bladed rotor mounted on a 78-meter (256 foot) tall steel pole tower (total maximum height of 121.5 meters [399 feet]).

I've had quite a case of size-envy seeing the individual blades going down the interstate on tandem trailers. Here's a picture I found of the blades and hub being installed
http://yeswindcohocton.com/IMG_0249.JPG
There was also a note explaining one delay assembling the turbine: the blade hadn't been installed because there'd been too much wind! (>20mph)

The tower base is 16 feet in diameter but from a distance it looks like a drinking straw holding up a peace sign... there is a sense of hugeness even at a distance.

Cool.

The Cohocton site is about 30 miles south east of me and as best as I can tell there are two more wind farms in the works in that area; the town of Cohocton passed some rather friendly wind laws to attract developers (which are still being fought by the other side.)

The nearest wind farm that seems to be moving forward is a 57 MW plan about 25 miles southwest of me while one that would have been just 20 miles south of me was held up so long by "concerned citizens" that the developer went elsewhere...

It was a bit depressing so see some of the anti-wind tactics being used. Beyond environmental considerations, I've seen law suits at the state level over parliamentary practices at town meeting, possible interference to the line of site with (unbuilt) microwave tower rights. My favorite "issue" (which may or may not be true)is an anti-trust allegation that the building of the sites is controlled and fixed by a few international corporations. The lowest blow to me though, are articles with garish headlines like "Windmills produce considerable C02" but, if you read the article, you'd see there's no mentions of emissions or CO2 at all; but if you didn't you'd still have a nice anti-wind sound-byte to parrot to your friends.... and honestly, I thought we had a handle on the bird strike issue but after a morning of reading the "news" I'm not sure that wind turbines won't be responsible for their imminent extinction.

While local folks in the towns effected sit on both sides of the issue, it seems that the anti-wind conciliations try to get the matter into courts outside of the local scope as soon as possible. Luckily the state seems to be pro-wind in general, but moving the issue outside of the local scope seems to me to remove local representation from the decision. I'm hoping though that windpower here has enough momentum that even the dirty tactics can't keep pace.

 - Ed.

Nearby wind farm coming on-line | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by dnix71 (yahoo.com 'dnix71') on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 04:36:45 PM MST
(User Info)

Those sure looked big, if I hadn't seem the picture I would have skeptical about the 2MW per unit claim.

We seem to have a real problem in this country with anti-technology types using the courts to obstruct energy development. The best cure I think is to force objectors to do without power. There are pleny of Amish in New York, let them convert and move in with them. The Amish are nice people and get by without electricity just fine if that's someone preferred lifestyle.

I live in Florida. It would make me very happy to have the feds cut off power and gas until the state gov't drops it's objections to drilling the Destin Dome. Let the tourists walk here, too. It's selfish to stand in the way, esp. since the resource isn't theirs to begin with.

We don't get enough steady wind in Florida to make it pay, but more than one person I know has suggested dropping turbines into the Gulf Stream off Boynton Beach to make electricity.



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by fishfarm on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 11:36:28 AM MST
(User Info)

I live in Florida also. I remembered an article in the St. Pete Times about Gulf Stream turbines, and looked it up:

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/04/State/Gulf_Stream_turbines_.shtml

I just emailed that link to Crist with some encouraging words.

[ Parent ]



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by scorman (scorman@stny.rr.com) on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 at 09:59:00 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenpowertalk.org/showthread.php?t=6170

I was there end of May and took a few pics and video.



I had heard by word of mouth that there were to be 55 units and each was a GE 1.5MW, but that may be misinformation

I just uploaded a 15 sec video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq6Tt9CEfcI

about 50 miles due west is a completed farm at Bliss, NY which has 67 of the 1.5MW GE units ..they give tours
http://www.noblepower.com/photos/bliss-windpark.html

they are starting a phase II already, and the approval process went through so fast you wouldn't believe it!

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by elt on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 07:08:39 AM MST
(User Info)

> to be 55 units and each was a GE 1.5MW

I'd read something like that too, that "51 concrete piers have been poured" ... it a bit frustrating trying to get details, sort of like the wind developers are trying very hard to stay under the radar.

I guy I work with says he can see windmills near his house (he lives near Leicester) but the only news I can find from that site is that they applied mid-Spring to connect to the power grid.

I think that western New York should be proud that it's developing wind energy but... My son was going to school in the Bliss area during the planning so he saw a lot of the arguments there. I think that arguments were less sophisticated and more honest then: if the mills were on your land and you got the lease payments, you were for wind power. Otherwise, sour grapes, you weren't. It would be nice to think at slightly less direct level that we all benefited financially from less expensive renewable energy but as long as fossil fuel energy cost "x", I don't think that RE corporations have any incentive to sell there power for less. I'd like to see wind energy developed to the point where we have an excess and cost can actually come down... My understanding of the wind developers rational was not that western NY had so much wind but that energy costs were so high here that wind was economically feasible. It only occurred to me later that if energy costs drops that they'll stop building, maybe even start shutting down. :(

- Ed.

[ Parent ]



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by scorman (scorman@stny.rr.com) on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 08:37:50 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenpowertalk.org/showthread.php?t=6170

Ed,
I had the gal on the phone who took most of the pics on that Noble website and she gave me several perspectives.

First was a technical question that I asked about the audible low frequency "thump" that I have seen talked about in other threads. Her claim is that the newer GE turbines have the nacel redesigned to put the blade further out from the tower and the problem has gone away.

from another source for this size turbine whose max rotation is 22rpm:
" When the turbine is running at full capacity one would measure about 60 decibels at the bottom of the tower. Sound attenuates as one moves away from the source so at about 200 yards, the sound level would be less than 30 decibels which is equivalent to a quiet whisper."

Then I asked about how they pick the potential sites.
The shots I took were from a farm on a hilltop driving in a mile on a dirt road.
They look for undeveloped areas which have little commercial tax base ..so the revenue to the district effectively pays for the roads, schools, busing,etc ...everyone local benefits, not just the farm landowner(s) who have the turbines.

Most people do not realize that most of NY State is either forest or farmland and then everyone else is crowded into a few high density population areas. If gas prices keep going up and ethanol really takes hold, they'll be planting corn in Central Park!

After the first Noble Bliss project went online, the neighboring areas couldn't wait to sign on the dotted line

What I don't understand is why GE has a backlog of two years production to crank these things out ...they aren't being outsourced overseas, because the transportation costs are prohibitive and people would freak out if parts came flying out of the sky.... so why isn't GE scaling up production before Siemens builds a plant in their backyard

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

 

[ Parent ]



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by dnix71 (yahoo.com 'dnix71') on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 07:17:59 AM MST
(User Info)

This pic from Noble's site give a good idea just how big those things are. There are two men standing on top waiting to install the blade.

http://www.noblepower.com/photos/images/NEP-BlissWindpark-Rotor.jpg

[ Parent ]



news update (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by scorman (scorman@stny.rr.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:54:09 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenpowertalk.org/showthread.php?t=6170

looks like GE puts it's money where its mouth is (reads: where its turbines fly):

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080709/20080709005390.html?.v=1

this is the "phase II" I was talking about ..a few miles north of Bliss,NY

"    *  The Noble Wethersfield Windpark (126 megawatts), in Wyoming County

Workers are laying foundations and installing turbines at the new wind farms, adjacent to the three wind farms in which GE Energy Financial Services invested last year........  When the three begin commercial operation, they will increase the wind producing capacity of New York State by 47 percent. Using 1.5-megawatt GE wind turbines, the three wind farms will generate a combined 330 megawatts of energy--enough to power more than 110,000 average New York homes. In total, the farms will avoid 385,000 tons of greenhouse gases per year--equivalent to taking 64,000 cars off the road. "

I think this settles the 2Mw question ...they are all 1.5Mw ..calculates to 84 units ...nice!

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

[ Parent ]



Re: news update (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by elt on Fri Jul 11th, 2008 at 03:00:48 PM MST
(User Info)

> I think this settles the 2Mw question ...they are all 1.5Mw ..calculates to 84 units ...nice!

Okay, I tracked down the NYDEC permits filed March 2008 for both Cohocton sites. Both are using 2.5 megawatt Clipper C-96 wind turbines. Dutch Hill is planning 40 Mw from 16 turbines and Cohocton Power is planning 87.5 Mw with 35 turbines.

It seems Cohocton was planning on using the GE turbines (like those flying in Bliss) as late at 2006; haven't seen why they changed... maybe because they could.

- Ed.

References:
http://www.dutchhillwind.com/PDFs/Dutch%20Hill%20NYSDEC%20Permit.pdf
http://www.cohoctonwind.com/UserFiles/File/regulatory_cohocton/Permits/Cohocton_NYSDEC_Permit(1).pdf

[ Parent ]



Re: news update (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by scorman (scorman@stny.rr.com) on Sat Jul 12th, 2008 at 05:28:31 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenpowertalk.org/showthread.php?t=6170

Ed,
I stand corrected ...nice work Shelock!

found this link:
http://www.dutchhillwind.com/PDFs/DEIS/Addendum%20for%20Marteen/VIA_AppA%20WFComponents.pdf

damn, those are 150'+ long blades!

Would seem logical if newer larger units are available, the infrastruction costs being the same with the exception of the tower costs prehaps?

Would like to see GE garner more of the business, but at least the Clipper is made here as well :
" Clipper's Liberty wind turbines are currently in full production at the Company's manufacturing facility in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. At a 2.5 MW capacity, the Liberty machine is the largest wind turbine built in the United States. "

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

[ Parent ]



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by spinningmagnets (velmis1450bc(at)aol(dot)com) on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 08:37:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Here's another conversation about Californian environmentalists protesting a new solar steam-electric site:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3928-what-matter-green-energy

I'm looking forward to the day when PV is half the cost per Watt that it is today, until then I have been fascinated by the idea of solar steam. The Mojave desert has several SEGS plants where a non-boiling slurry is pumped through pipes that pass by solar concentrating troughs.

Each has been bigger and better than the previous. The slurry is about 1,000F and makes steam for very high RPM turbines in order to make the high voltage neccessary to reach the So Cal cities.

http://www.industcards.com/kramer-junction.jpg

And newest is a field of mirrors focusing on a tower (like Spain):

http://www.seao2.com/solarsphere/images/csp_images/solar%202.JPG

The protest said it would disturb the delicate balance of the fragile habitat of the endangered tortoise and ground squirrel. The animals must not have gotten the memo, because they are not cooperating and are in fact thriving near the plants.

What can be done to keep birds away from giant wind-gens? Gotta be a way...




Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Jeff (ruralmcguyver at yahoo dot com) on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 at 09:58:41 AM MST
(User Info)

What can be done to keep birds away from giant wind-gens? Gotta be a way...

I thought some were using ultra-sonic devices on some of them?

It never ceases to amaze me how people will still complain even if there was a way for them to get FREE electricity!!!
Rural McG
[ Parent ]



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by finnsawyer on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 08:38:21 AM MST
(User Info)

The heat from that 1,000 degree slurry could also be used with a coal based synfuel plant to make gasoline or diesel fuel.  Might make sense for California.  By the way, how come no one talks about coal based synfuel?  The Sasol Ltd. plant in South Africa makes 15,000 barrels (6.3 million gallons) of diesel fuel per day.  And supposedly that process (entirely coal based) is competitive with crude oil at $50 per barrel.  Using non CO2 producing heat from solar or nuclear to free the hydrogen and drive the reactions would have its advantages.
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by tecker on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 04:53:08 AM MST
(User Info)

This technology is rooted in logic over money which may become vogue at some point It's  at least a spark pun intended .




Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by powerbuoy on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 08:05:29 PM MST
(User Info)

Concerning the birds:

There is an estimate out there that the combined windpower (turbines) kills roughly 20.000 birds per year. This pales in comparisson to the number of birds killed by the average house cat, which is a couple millions per year. The turbine as a bird killer myth has been busted a while ago. Another argument that nobody ever looks at are the cooling towers for conventional plants. I did some electrical work once at such a cone and was wondering about the relative high number of bird skeletons that I found inside (10 to 15 or so ...). Someone explained to me that the birds get easily disoriented in the misty water vapor and cannot get out of the cone in time. Nobody ever mentions that ... go figure.



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 01:20:00 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

That's one heck of a cat!

I think glass windows kill far more birds than (especially new) turbines, and the key is avoiding giving the birds (or bats) anywhere to perch/roost.

Rgds

Damon

[ Parent ]



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by elt on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 03:50:29 PM MST
(User Info)

> There is an estimate out there that the combined windpower (turbines) kills [...]

If this hasn't happened already, it will:

The guy that was telling me about the Leister windmills told me that he has a friend that lives next to one of them... today we were talking about flying and he told had a friend with a small private airfield and two untralights. I asked, is that the same friend??? No, it wasn't, but I couldn't help but thinking of a new kind of sport flying... If birds can do it...
- Ed.

[ Parent ]



Re: Nearby wind farm coming on-line (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by bl23 on Sat Jul 12th, 2008 at 08:43:42 AM MST
(User Info)

I remember 3 years ago when they set up a bunch of wind turbines on a mountain near here.  They had an open house and on site lecture/discussion.  We are near a DOE site so many of the researches were in the crowd as well as many "green" type people.  The question about birds was raised.  Keep in mind that these are hough blades. As he was speaking a few birds flew by.  The turbine spins slow because its so large.  The birds just adjusted their speed and flew right through the blades.  There were a few chuckles from the crowd.

[ Parent ]


Nearby wind farm coming on-line | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)
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