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Wind Power RPM


By kc5etv, Section Wind
Posted on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 01:08:30 PM MST
Checking what the RPM is

Hello all   Just checking to see if there is a way to check to rpm on my turbine while also being able to see the amps and voltage at the unit, I have meters on the amps and voltage, I am charging a bat. bank of 12- 2 volt bat. at 12 volts and the rectifiers are dwon at the bat. And with that is it better to have the Rectifier at the bottom of the tower or at the Top ?Thanks
Wind Power RPM | 14 comments (14 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 07:40:29 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

If you know how many poles the alternator is, then you can measure the frequency of the AC.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF


Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Flux on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 08:54:48 AM MST
(User Info)

If it is the Otherpower 10ft machine then I think it is 12 pole so the rpm will be 10 times the frequency ( 20Hz = 200 rpm).

Measuring frequency is often tricky and connecting the average multimeter to the ac lines without filters doesn't often work ( perhaps I am the only one who finds it tricky, others may be happy to accept daft answers).

The obvious place for the rectifier is at ground level. It costs one extra wire but saves a lot of bother in other respects. The exception is where the rectifier at ground level would need many wires such as the parallel 5 phase or forms of Jerry connection. Personally I like as little up the tower as possible.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by kc5etv (kc5etv@yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 03:37:04 PM MST
(User Info)

I have 9 coils and 12 magnets will 24 magnets 2 rotors 3 phase 12 volt system  where do I take the measurement ? a/c or d/c.
KC5ETV Les
[ Parent ]


Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 05:25:48 PM MST
(User Info)

AC.

Voltage between two phases is a good place to sample.  Alternatively, current in one phase (though that's a little more problematic to tap.)

If you don't have a stand-alone frequency meter (or a multitester with a frequency scale) you may need an isolation and step-down transformer to use some other solution (such as feeding it to a tachometer intended for automotive engine service.)

One way to sample is to hang a small transformer (such as a doorbell transformer or a transformer pulled from a wall-wart) between two of the leads, to provide step-down and isolation.  If you do this, figure out what your unloaded output voltage would be at the RPM where the output frequency would be the one the transformer is rated for.

(I.e. with a 12-pole you get 60 Hz at 600 RPM.  So if your genny puts out no more than 120V at 600 RPM into no load you can use a 120V transformer.  If your genny puts out, say, 175V at that speed you'll need either a transformer with a higher voltage primary rating or to add a series resistor.)

You should be able to use an automotive tachometer by stepping down to the ballpark of 12V.  A 12-pole genny would cause a 6-cylinder tach to read twice the mill's actual RPM (because you have 6 cycles per revolution but plugs fire only on every other revolution so the tach is expecting 3 pulses per revolution).

[ Parent ]



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 05:33:57 PM MST
(User Info)

In fact a wall-wart that provides something like 12v AC (not DC) output might be able to feed an automotive tachometer directly, without modification.

Automotive tachs are pretty forgiving about voltage and polarity, though a couple back-to-back diodes across the transformer output, with the tach across one of the diodes, would clean up the waveform so the tach only sees half-wave rectified pulses of the right polarity, just in case the one you got has an electrolytic capacitor exposed to the raw input.

[ Parent ]



Re: Wind Power RPM (1.00 / 1) (#7)
by la7qz on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 10:21:12 AM MST
(User Info) http://home.no.net/naomij

Hi

Weird that nobody has mentioned using a bicycle computer. Much easier than messing about with scopes etc.

There are some available that can read both RPM and speed which could be calibrated to show wind speed on the speed readout. You can extend the wire with no problems.

I use one which only reads speed, so I have calibrated it to read the speed as RPM. It also remembers top speed (i.e. top RPM). I'm at work now, but when I get home to the boat, I can check what wheel circumference I entered to make kph correspond to RPM. It's a constant, not related to prop diameter. (You want to know how many times it turns, not how far the tip of the prop travels.) If you put your thinking cap on, you can calculate it, but I'm at work now, so I left my thinking cap at home... :)

Readout is with one decimal point moved. In other words. 30.5 kPh means 305 RPM. Mine has been a bit flaky lately. Probably moisture got into where I extended the cable, or maybe it needs a new battery.

Don't try a wireless bicycle computer. You probably won't get enough range and even if you did, it would be a pain to have to climb up the tower to change the battery in the sender.

Owen
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
[ Parent ]



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by ghurd on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 10:47:29 AM MST
(User Info)

Set it to Km/H. Set the wheel circumference to 166.7cm.
The Km/H is multiplied by 10 to get the RPMs.
ie: 32.8 Km/H on the speedometer is 328 RPMs.

CatEye is a higher end brand, Mity8 is one of their lower cost units. This model is listed as 4Km/H min, 105Km/H max.  So it should read from 40 to 1050 RPM.
I stretched the wire to 30+ feet on a Mity8 and it worked fine as a speedometer.
G-


[ Parent ]



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by kc5etv (kc5etv@yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 10:23:12 PM MST
(User Info)

Looking forword to your reply..
KC5ETV Les
[ Parent ]


Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by la7qz on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 04:56:47 PM MST
(User Info) http://home.no.net/naomij

Hi

Ghurd is correct. The constant for reading RPM on the Kph scale is 166.7cm (or 1667mm). Remember, the diameter of the prop is totally irrelevant. All you want to know is how many times it is turning per minute. (Now, if you wanted tip speed, well that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.)

Using the Kph scale is preferable to using the Mph scale because a speedometer running to max 100 kph may only be capable of showing around 60 Mph max.

Owen
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
[ Parent ]



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by tecker on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 09:35:20 AM MST
(User Info)

Put a scope on it
Zelscope or
xscope use your sound card you need to make a buffer for it
http://www.zelscope.com/
 For the buffer http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/hardware/hardware.html
the buffer circuit is in the FAQas is a link to x scope for Linux I have xscope running on a bench box and Zelscope on this machine the buffer needs 12 volts .
I sugest a elceapo sound card on an old machine but it's fun to play with .



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by powerbuoy on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 09:01:04 AM MST
(User Info)

simple formula:

n= f/p

n= RPS (revolutions per second)
f= frequency
p=pole pairs (note; a 4 pole unit has therefore 2 pole pairs)

Example 4 pole generator, frequency 60 cycles

n = 60/2 = 30

Another Example, more geared towards your problem:

Measure the frequency with a multimeter, lets say you see 48Hz.
Your alternator is a six pole unit (3 pole pairs)

n= 48Hz/3 = 16 revolutions per second, times 60 and you got your RPM

Powerbuoy



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by kc5etv (kc5etv@yahoo.com) on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 09:17:19 PM MST
(User Info)

Ok so I have 9 coils and set up 3 phases so do I have 3 polls ?
KC5ETV Les
[ Parent ]


Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Flux on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 at 07:10:07 AM MST
(User Info)

No it's 12 pole as I suggested earlier. You have 24 magnets with 12 on each magnet disc and that makes it 12 pole.

The frequency if you ever manage to measure it will be rpm/10.

If you want to measure frequency then measure it from a pair of incoming ac wires before the rectifier.

Someone suggested measuring phase current frequency, that is a better idea but you won't manage it. I think you will struggle with voltage without having to dig deeper.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Wind Power RPM (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by kc5etv (kc5etv@yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 at 08:25:12 AM MST
(User Info)

Got Ya. Thanks
KC5ETV Les
[ Parent ]


Wind Power RPM | 14 comments (14 topical, 0 editorial)
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