Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ?
By DigitalMind, Section Newbies Posted on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 02:00:19 PM MST
Can I get away with this ?

Hello once again alternative energy guru's,   after about a year of reading, I'm finally starting to understand how a wind turbine works and would like to start experimenting.  I've already talked myself out of making a turbine using a permanent magnet motor based on popular opinion and to go straight to making my own alternator.  As usual, I'm on a tight budget.  If my first alternator makes 100 watts or more I'll be really happy with it.   The big question here is : Is there any way I can get away with using telephone cable wire for the coils ?  As a phone guy, I have ridiculous amounts of this stuff.  I don't really mind if a year later it melts or something since it's for my very first test alternator.   I found this post (link below) while searching the board and basically it seems to say that NO, I can't use telephone wire.  However I'm hoping that maybe for testing purposes I could get away with it and it'll work for a while ? http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/6/19/172728/126 Thanks! Jason

Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#1) by tanner0441 on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 08:38:43 AM MST (User Info)

Hi I don't know if you are in the UK or US in the UK the pvc insulated telephone wire used for drop wires and internal routing is 28SWG (UK size)  and you would not get the winding density in the space available, there are other reasons which make it inpractical.  I am also on a very tight budget and have stripped old dynamo field windings, about 20 SWG. the only problem is with that is if it has been run hot very often the laquering insulation becomes brittle and cracks.  If you are in the UK look for the coils out of bell set 21. The best I have found for small units around 100W is the primary winding on microwave oven transformers.  I have also spent hours rewinding car alternators with more turns of thinner wire. Again because where I live I am never going to have a stable wind supply, so my interest has to be for fun only and will not justify the money I would love to be able spend. Hope this helps. Brian.

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#2) by Tritium on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 08:45:45 AM MST (User Info)

Jason I have seen several post that would seem to indicate that stator coil temp can run as hot as standard cooking oven baking temps (300 to 400 degrees F). Just make a coil and place it in your oven at that temp for a demonstration of what will happen to the coils. If you are married this activity could get you in much trouble.  ;>)   I also work for a Telco and have contemplated this many times but it just will not work for any length of time before a failure occurs. Thurmond

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#3) by TomW on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 09:12:00 AM MST (User Info)

I think one of our users  built some turbines with standard house wire?? I can't remember his ID. Its been done with other than "magnet wire" but will not be optimal. Good luck with it. Tom "Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#4) by ghurd on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 09:25:59 AM MST (User Info)

Hiker did a couple with automotive(?) wire. http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/1236/baby_and_8and6_alt019.jpg http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/9/5/10489/52137 G- [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#5) by spinningmagnets (velmis1450bc(at)aol(dot)com) on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 09:32:42 AM MST (User Info)

(disclaimer: I haven't built a PMA yet) One of the most clever things I've read on this site is a post where an experienced builder told a new enthusiast to build the full rotors and magnets set. Then make one coil and insert it. Spin the rotors at the speed you anticipate being able to get, and measure the output. There are so many variables. I like the oven idea for heat-testing coils, too.

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#6) by Flux on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 09:50:37 AM MST (User Info)

What you can do and what is sensible are very different. To me using pvc covered wire is stupid beyond question, but it will undoubtedly work up to a point. The best stacking factor you can manage with enamelled wire is about 60%. With thin pvc coating you would drop this to below 30%. The big factor is the temperature limit, I think you will be hard pushed to get pvc to survive 60C whereas the class H enamel coatings survive 200C. You will need something the size of a 2kW conventional alternator to give you 100W. It will cost you far more in the extra magnets to save a small cost on copper. You will need to wind many strands in hand or use lots of parallel coils. I can't even see the justification for using second hand magnet wire but that makes a bit more sense although it may cause more trouble than it's worth. For most of us there is no saving in money from renewable power, it is far more costly than grid power. If you are not on grid and rely on it you had best not cut corners or you will pay dearly. If you are doing it as a hobby then ok have fun but you may be advised to spend precious money on more worthwhile hobbies. Flux [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#7) by DigitalMind on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 12:21:21 PM MST (User Info) http://www.techienation.com

Thanks so much for all the feedback.  I might attempt to make a mini model to see what happens.   If anything I'll be learning to make molds and winding coils and setting up magnets.   I'm in Canada. flux : I am doing this as a hobby for the moment, to try and properly understand the entire concept of how a wind turbine works.  Once I REALLY understand it, then I'll spend money and make a good and reliable one for my little sisters off-grid home.  I eventually want to move far away off the grid and the things i'm learning now will come in handy down the line i'm sure !

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#8) by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 04:31:06 PM MST (User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Here in Alabama the indoor telephone wire is 22ga which will carry a little more than 1 amp but at a high resistance. The insulation is fairly thin and you could get enough wraps in a coil to have some pretty good Fun with decently sized magnets. By building a generator like this you will have great fun charging small batteries and powering some LED lighting. And Guess what ... You will learn an incredible amount of stuff about how to build that bigger better generator when ever the money appears. W o o f -={(

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#9) by electrondady1 on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 at 07:40:08 AM MST (User Info)

greetings digital , around here everyone is going to flat screen technology and throwing out there old TV and comp. monitors. around each picture tube is a big loop of magnet wire . enough for a coil or two. also a lot of wire in the magnetron gun at the back of the tube. you could  cruse  the streets of Montreal on garbage day and scoop them up. [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#10) by TomW on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 at 08:35:42 AM MST (User Info)

Woofie; I would add that the deflection coils have a fair bit of magnet wire in them, also. Tom "Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#12) by DigitalMind on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 at 09:57:12 AM MST (User Info) http://www.techienation.com

Now that's what i'm talking about ! ;)   Yes there are TONS of monitors being thrown out every single garbage day.  I have a friend who has about 30 old monitors he's been trying to give away for about a month now, I guess i'll take him up on it !! Thanks Electrondady, Tomw, Flux, and EVERYONE who took the time to give me their 2 cents.  Very, very appreciated.  I'll keep everyone updated.   I'm also gonna order a Ametek PM motor from windstuffnow this week so i'll have a few wind projects to work on in order to educate myself. :) [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#13) by ghurd on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 at 10:31:45 AM MST (User Info)

The bigger the better! But even a 14" B&W will have a lot of small magnet wire. The coil is wrapped in black tape, but the wire is not glued together. Easy to use. Don't forget channel-locks for delicate removal of the heat sinks. You will need a few for your ghurd controller.  LOL G- [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#14) by DigitalMind on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 at 10:42:58 AM MST (User Info) http://www.techienation.com

Haha thanks Ghurd !    It's actually nice you remind me to keep those.  I will eventually need one of your now world famous Ghurd controllers ! ;)   The biggest challenge for me in this whole project is all the machining that's necessary to build your own turbine.  I'm missing lots of tools and will need to learn lots of things for the first time which will slow me down.  (Never used resin, never made molds, never needed to CUT metal other than drilling through it) I'll figure it out, i'm very handy, but still ...   almost a year ago I was all confused with solar power.  Now it seems like such basic stuff, but the wind is going to keep me busy for a while I think.  :) [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#15) by Bruce S (bruce(dot)stahl <at>gmail (dot)(com)) on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 at 08:52:03 AM MST (User Info)

Coming in late to this dance :0 BUT don't forget the insulated pliers and screw driver , maybe even rubber golves. Those monotors can give such a nasty shock ! a couple times each :-O Have Fun! Bruce S   [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#16) by DigitalMind on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 at 05:38:58 PM MST (User Info) http://www.techienation.com

Thanks Bruce,   truth be told I have picked up a couple of monitors today, and probably never even would have thought about the shock hazard while playing inside !! I'll remember now! Thanks! [ Parent ]

Re: Telephone wire coils for small wind turbine ? (3.00 / 0) (#11) by DigitalMind on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 at 09:52:45 AM MST (User Info) http://www.techienation.com

Thanks Wooferhound,   that's pretty much the point of this.  I want to REALLY get to understand the theory of how it works before spending good money.  This one is all about learning even if it doesn't work.  (Everything you try and fail at brings you one step closer to success because you learn one more thing that doesn't work!) [ Parent ]

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