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Outback Mate wireless?
By zapmk, Section Controls Posted on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 04:11:05 PM MST
How do I ?

I have been trying to figure out a way to get the info from my Outback Mate
via wireless to my pc.
I have a couple of radio modems,http://www.aerocomm.com/docs/User_Manual_CL4424.pdf
that I would like to use, setting up the PC side of things is no problems.
The Mate to the radio well that different story.
The mate requires that DTR be high and RTS low to start the info flowing, I would to do this with out the use of another PC in the works.
I have been thinking about some kind of adapter put in line with the serial cable
to power the mates optically isolated rs232, power to DTR and grounding the RTS line
I can tap 5 volts from the radio its self no problem, just don't know if this would work.
Any suggestions/comments would be much appreciated.

Outback Mate wireless? | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by TomW on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 10:47:06 AM MST
(User Info)

zapmk;

Well, if it was me, I would get myself a simple wireless ethernet bridge and a linksys NSLU2 "Slug".

Put Linux on the Slug, get an USB to rs232 adapter cable and have the slug use the wireless bridge to access it from the LAN. I don't do the wireless to the Slug but the wireless bridge looks like a "wire" to the Slug.

I can even pass on the perl script I use to pull data from my Mate.

It pulls raw data that ends up looking like this:

0,01,00,00,126,119,00,02,000,01,260,008,000,040

Each field corresponds to a data value from the FX inverter itself thats passed to the Mate then to the Slug via the RS232/ USB interface.

Very low power.

You cannot use an ethernet hub or other ethernet gear other than a Cat5 cable to connect the mate to its devices. They do not play well together and Outback says it will kill the mate.

Just a few thoughts.

Good Luck with it!

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 01:38:53 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Tom, Ya, I had read about this one, in one of your post in the outback forums, unfortunately Linux and perl are a little over my head, more of a windows
and .net type of guy.

My main goal here was to try and not use a "Slug" in between the Mate and transmitter
I had read about a guy that was using a class one Bluetooth module, http://www.microenergie.com/Outback/Outback_remote_control:en.html
http://www.omron247.com/doc/pdfcatal.nsf/1DD775B04A50808886256FE300764F1C/$FILE/B11CJ1.CS1Manual.pdf

This is for a second system that I have in a workshop a little over 1000 feet from the house, just though I might be able to use the transmitters I had laying around, if I could get the Mate to start spewing out the 1's and 0's

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by TomW on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 02:11:45 PM MST
(User Info)

zapmk;

Google up "terminal server" They interface ethernet to RS232. RossW on IRC uses them for similar applications. I suspect they might be within your geekiness range.

The information about the wireless "bridge" will apply to any Operating System. You would need one bridge connected to the terminal server [or other acquisition device] and the other connected to your network. Once thats in then it is transparent to devices on the network, just as if it was hardwaired.

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by TomW on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 02:26:29 PM MST
(User Info)

zapmk;

I may be wrong on how those work so don't assume I am right.

Just because I realized after posting I may be misinterpreting what I "heard".

Researching myself now just to get familiar with how they can be used.

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by rossw on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 04:01:23 PM MST
(User Info) http://house.albury.net.au/

Tom is right. I have use the terminal server solution for years. Probably for different reasons to Tom though :)

I run a 100% off-grid site, but have a bunch of RS232 type stuff that I want to "use" in other, meaningful ways - but don't have the spare power to process it all locally.

A Lantronix 8-port terminal server works great. You can pick them up on ebay for $20 or so if you're patient.

I run my home automation (C-Bus), weather station, lightning tracker, security system, 5KW inverter and various other gear into one, the ethernet side of it connects to my microwave link back to the office, and all the 'grunt' is done there.

You can create "virtual circuits" where the RS232 on the terminal server, via whatever link connects your computer to the TS, become "invisible" to the application and they just "look like" RS232 ports on the local machine as far as the application is concerned (although I work in a unix world and choose to do it differently)

There are also plenty of single port versions (and I have three 64-port jobs as well, but they're more than a little overkill for this application!)

Give me a yell if you want more help.

RossW

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 04:59:37 PM MST
(User Info)

I too use home automation software to control my house (mostly Z-Wave)and to monitor the info from my outback products, was really trying to keep away from setting up another appliance up to do this, But maybe its the only way, still looking ;>)

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 02:21:25 PM MST
(User Info)

Zapmk,

I assume the Mate's modem is configured as DTE (need modem cable)? And flow control enabled?
Reading over your needs and the CL4424 manual that should do it.
Full duplex also, matching baud rates etc.
I know nothing about the Mates, Have assumed it can connect to a PC?

If that does not work, you can short pins with the signals on the RS232 to get the voltages you need.
If no negative voltage is present for the low signal, Use diode and Cap to store the Data signals neg.
All can be put in a connector shell, have done it many times. Piece of cake.

Have fun,
Scott.

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 at 04:50:11 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Scott,
The Mate http://www.outbackpower.com/pdfs/manuals/mate_guide.pdf

This is were I get a little bit confused.
Pc to the mate, The one I already have up and running uses a modem cable
so yes, DTE to DTE

PC to radio modems uses a straight cable, DTE to DCE

So, DTE to DCE to DCE to DTE.
The problem as I see it the Mate need to "steal" its power from DTR and RTS lines
from the DCE device to power up the optically isolated rs232 on the Mate.

Note: I use a little script on startup of a program I use with the mate, I have up and running now, which pulls DTR high and RTS low and keeps it that way untill I shut down the com port, the Mates DTR and RTS needs power all the time for communications.

So how do I setup this diode and cap thing ?

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Sun Aug 24th, 2008 at 12:57:41 AM MST
(User Info)

zapmk,
Its late, will give it a go in the morning.
Designed several opto isolated RS232 interfaces, stealing power is easy!-)
Scott.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 12:29:34 AM MST
(User Info)

zapmk,
Sorry got busy, you still need help with this?
Could give it a go tomorrow it you like.
Scott.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:09:40 AM MST
(User Info)

Hey Scott that would be great,
Been playing around with the radios, I got out the Easy Bob breakout box,
DTR is already set high with power on to the radios, RTS is set high also,
to get the radios to start transmitting RTS needs to go low.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:36:20 AM MST
(User Info)

Opps, forget what is said about DTR and RTS, I was in program mode.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 01:09:48 PM MST
(User Info)

Zapmk,

Sorry took so long, this was messing with my head. Started on it several times, got distracted mainly because it Does not compute!

You said DTE to DTE yet using a modem cable. I miss read that to mean a Null Modem cable which I realized is not right after reading several times the Mates manual.
Modem cable is a straight cable. Pin 2 to 2 etc. Better.
DTE to DCE between PC to Mate. OK. (not DTE to DTE!-)

PC to Modem and Modem to Mate is DTE - DCE and DCE to DCE.
OK that works for me. Now I can do this.

PC modem can use existing cable your using now. Modem cable.
Some work on the remote model DCE to DCE, modified null modem cable with negative voltage capture on Mate pin 7..

Modem to Mate
-2--------3
-3--------2
-6--------4
-5--------5 gnd
-3--------7 connected by diode
Cap on Mates pin 7 to ground.

Modem pin 3 Connect a diode pointing to pin 3 other end to Mate pin 7 with Cap. 5-10uf should do it. Cap Pos to GND pin 5. Cap value is not critical if larger.

Strongly suggest prototype circuit, verifying it works correctly.
Please let me know if this does not work. Diode direction is critical as is cap polarity.

Have fun,
Scott.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:08:50 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Scott,

I prototyped the circuit, the Mate is transmitting its data to the radio.

But, What is happening is the Mates radio is flashing receive, not transmit, seams to be backwards.

The manual says the mate transmits it data from RDX, and receives on TXD.
and that is how you have the wiring layed out.
I have checked and rechecked my wiring.

Could Outback have switch the pins internally on the Mate plug.

any Ideas ?

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by TomW on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:17:31 PM MST
(User Info)

I am not wanting to get involved but I actually went thru this already.

The way I understood it and how we gather it is thusly:

Mate tosses the data on the serial port approximately every 60 seconds. I only am interested in gathering the data not sending commands.

You power the Mate side of the port with DTR if i recall right. I will check before i hit submit.

OK, checked my notes probably copied from the same PDF you have:

The Mate requires that the DTR (pin 4) be driven high(set) and that RTS (pin 7) be driven low (cleared), in order to power the port.

The Mate transmits data on the RX (pin 2) line,and listens for commands on the TX (pin 3) line.

Probably the same thing you read.

No real communication [on mine] just power the port read the data. At least with my system. No reason you couldn't just hardwire those pins high and low that I can see. We did it in software, however. I had lots of RossW and DonC help as well as others who I forget now.

Be sure its a straight through cable, too. Got caught trying to use a null modem cable by accident myself.

Just tossing it on the pile.

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 07:53:51 PM MST
(User Info)

Zapmk,

As a guess, Yes.
Yet I checked what I wrote several times, should be right.

Just what is flashing receive?
I take it nothing is coming through to the PC?
Does the PC need to send commands to get Mate going?
From TomW post, nope.

I would try reversing the wires (2, 3) and see if it works. First.
Please verify Pin 7 on Mate is negative voltage, what value?
Actually all voltage readings would be good.

Have fun,
Scott.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 09:45:06 PM MST
(User Info)

Scott,

checked pin 7 it is a negative 4.75 volts, I will get the other pin voltages tomorrow
I also have an Easy BoB breakout box that I will stick in line to help see whats going on.
don't have much light in the shop right now still wiring it up, holding a flash light is just not cutting it.

The radio modems have a transmit and receive light, the receive light is the one flashing now when the Mate is sending data to it. I have not hooked up the other modem to the PC yet.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by zapmk (user name at zap-comp dot com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 12:13:09 PM MST
(User Info)

Scott,

Thanks for your help, couldn't of done it out you.

It is working, hooked the other radio to the PC monitored the serial line
with serialmon, I now have data to the PC from the Mate using radio modems.

What I think is a little strange, is that the transmitter hooked to the Mate has the receiving light flashing and the radio hooked to the PC has the transmit light flashing, I would think it would be the other way around.

Again thanks!!!

Zapmk

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 03:23:41 PM MST
(User Info)

Zapmk,

You are welcome!

The wires names are throwing you off.

A straight cable connects DTE to DCE, called a modem cable.
Pin 2 connects to 2 and 3 to 3. Each end pin 2 has the same name yet, one trans other receives! Can be very confusing.

The Mate's modem is receiving from the Mate as the PC's modem is transmitting to the PC!!
Simple:-)

I assumed you tested out the PC end but had to ask... should have worked.
Glad it did. Good to keep in practice doing serial work, been too long.

Have fun,
Scott.

[ Parent ]

Re: Outback Mate wireless? (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by StorminN on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 07:39:33 PM MST
(User Info)

Zapmk,

You should call Outback... I talked to some of their guys at a show last fall and they said they had something like this in the works already... so it might be out or coming out soon... worth a call...

-N.

Outback Mate wireless? | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 editorial)

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