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fun projects


By electronbaby, Section Wind
Posted on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 05:33:49 AM MST
i owe everyone some pictures

I have been having so much fun.



Time to take down that awful XL.1 and put up a real machine. SO I took it down with the help of some others, and replaced it with a 48v 12 foot diameter axial flux. I now have some decent low wind performance. :-) Here I am on top of the tower attaching the blades. After those are  fastened and tied off, the tail will get greased and placed on.


Yes, these are pretty much exact copies of Dans design, BUT they are scaled to accept a 12 foot diameter prop. They will be 48v machines, and I will be building two almost identical units. One Im keeping, the other might go up for sale if anyone is interested.


Here is an adapter hub I made for the lathe, so that I can turn down my rotors and make everything look pretty. It allows me to bolt on 2 or three rotors at the same time and cut the circumference exact. It lets me get a better grip on things in the chuck because when your turning 14" diameter rotors, they like to move around. This makes things go smoothly.


Here are 4 magnet rotors ready to have the magnets placed down. Two back rotors, and two front rotors with holes, drilled and tapped, for jacking screws. The rotors are 1/2" steel and they have a 1" stainless band around them. It is done the same way Dan does it. The ring is welded together so that it is too tight to fit around the disc. At that point, it is heated with the torch and allowed to drop on and shrink down to a very tight fit. This actually forms my outer dam that I will pour resin into after the magnets are placed down. It looks nice and it hold things together.


This time I did things a little differently. In the past, Ive always used 5/8" rod through the hub. This time since this is only a 12' machine, I felt it was ok to go with 1/2" stainless rod. I had drilled out my template for 5/8" a while ago. I had to make these bushings so that I could hold my template centered and get everything aligned right. I took 5/8" rod and turned it down to 1/2". It works great.


Here I am placing magnets down on one pair of rotors. I am checking the polarity with a magnet gripped tightly in my hand. This works well for making sure everything goes down correctly.


I place the template down so that I can draw an arrow. This arrow points to the location where a small index mark is drilled on the outside face of the rotors. These index marks  allow the rotors to be assembled in only one direction so that you can be sure that the magnets will align correctly in the end. After the front rotor magnets are glued down, the template is simply moved to the rear rotor, arrow aligned with index mark, and flipped over. This makes it easy for the magnets to be placed perfectly without making any mistakes.



Both of these machine I just built, had their magnet rotors cast with West Systems epoxy. This one I tried first came out perfectly clear. It looks cool and adheres very well. Its just expensive stuff. I had some trouble in the beginning with getting air bubbles into the rotor while casting and I think this is caused by the fact the epoxy is not very viscous. The second machine, in an effort to fix this, was cast with West Systems, and ATH. This works very well.


Here is one machine almost finished. You can see the clear rotor casting. All hardware on these machines is stainless. Its very shiny.


Here you can see  the rotors that were cast with the ATH. They come out perfect. I think I will do it this way from now on. These machines make great paper towel dispensers.





Here is the before shot of the nice looking stator that was ruined. I mentioned this in an earlier post. I tried to cast when the outside temp was pretty hot. I have realized my mistake however and it was my fault that I forgot to linseed oil the mold. I usually linseed oil the mold, the wipe it down and use grease as well. Ive never had a problem until now. Well thats why.


Heres how it looked when I attempted to pry the mold apart with a flat bar HAHA. Waste of copper. It will hang on the shop wall as a reminder. Lesson learned. If your using a plywood mold, linseed oil it before you grease it. It works great.


Here is another stator ready for casting. This one was wound with 110 turns of 15 AWG. Its wired in star. The one after it will be 105 turns of 14AWG wired in star. The 15AWG hits cut in at 140 RPM with N42 mags. The 14AWG hits cut in at 140 RPM with N50 mags. Both machines have a good size air gap with plenty of mechanical clearance.


Aside from taking notes, this makes it much easier to remember what you put into any particular stator. I use the label maker and print it out then stick it in the mold when I cast. I think it looks cool and serves a good purpose.

fun projects | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by TomW on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 11:57:16 PM MST
(User Info)

Some guys have all the fun.

Nice project[s].

Thanks for sharing.

Tom

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by DigitalMind on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 06:57:54 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.techienation.com

Very, very cool.   Like Tom says, thanks for sharing.  I love seeing people's RE projects.  




Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by ghurd on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 07:03:06 AM MST
(User Info)

Neat idea with the label in the stator!
(that isn't thermal lable paper, is it?)
G-



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 08:53:09 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

ha yes it is. Time will tell how it acts. Its hard to keep that stuff from curling up, so instead of keeping it in a "wire free" area, i stuck it right on the coils. Ive also done this with a sharpie and masking tape and that works good too.  The stator is nice and efficient (low resistance) so we'll see how hot it gets. :-)
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by tecker on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 07:27:47 AM MST
(User Info)

Looks like your way over the top on this re stuff Great work.



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Tinbendr (tinbendr at cableone dot net) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 08:16:34 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums

Your attention to detail is very nice!

But, I'm suffering for acronymitis this morning... ATH?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Need another hobby




Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 08:59:52 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

ATH is Aluminum trihydroxide. Lots of us mix this powder in with the resin (after the hardener is added) as a filler material. Benefits include,...we use slightly less resin, it slows down the cure time, and it allows the stator casting to have better thermal properties.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by Tinbendr (tinbendr at cableone dot net) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 07:24:12 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums

ATH is Aluminum trihydroxide

I gotcha!

I've used too much fiberlass cloth and microballoons in my career, but we never used that!

Thanks for the lesson.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Need another hobby


[ Parent ]



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 01:06:53 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

correction, the alternators described in this post meet cut in (48v) after rectifier, at 120 RPM. not 140. I guess I mistyped it.

sorry.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by SparWeb (sparweb at ANTISPAM_hotmail_com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 01:31:47 PM MST
(User Info)

All you forgot on that label is the serial number:
#0001    (always leave room for over a thousand production units)  ;^)

Looks fantastic.
Steven Fahey



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by suitep123 (harrison7299@comcast.net(no spam)) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 01:42:21 PM MST
(User Info)

Beautiful work Roy but may I ask a question,
Why would you paint the rotors before glueing the magnets down or the epoxy.
Wouldnt the paint pull off easier than to plain steel which looks to be a blasted piece of rusted steel which the pitting would have been in my guess a better bond.
??
Thanks for the pictures and sharing, Would love to be able to do the work you are doing
Bob



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 02:14:17 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

good question. The steel I had obtained for these machines was from the junk yard. I machines them to be true after the fact and yes, they are a little pitted.  I heavily wire brushed them and sanded them to clean it up a bit. I should have had them powder coated, but there is some argument as to which lasts longer. powder coating, or oil based paint. I ended up using oil based paint directly to the steel which has a very good bond once died properly. I understand your point though. I just have been doing it this way for a while and haven't noticed any adverse effects. I guess in all actuality, the magnets don't need to be glued down at all. They will stay on the disc just fine. The banding and resin is to keep them from shifting side to side and to keep centripetal force from pulling them outward. The painting or coating the disc in some fashion before putting down nickel coated magnets is a good thing to do because it keeps down on the galvanic reaction the dissimilar metals have. It keeps corrosion to a minimum by electrically isolating the disc and the magnet. For all practical purposes, they are still very well magnetically coupled however.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by suitep123 (harrison7299@comcast.net(no spam)) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 07:16:45 PM MST
(User Info)

Thank you, Makes great sense, I have a lot to learn,
:)
Bob

[ Parent ]


Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by blueyonder (windwoodgood at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 02:59:06 PM MST
(User Info)

 thanks roy for the education and inspiration.
  at the moment i need a bit inspiring .
   both the story's are great .  i always enjoy to see work well done.
   it gives me the incentive to try harder and do better.
  camera work is very fair.
   couldent you just remove the bits of remaining plywood from the stator.
   soak it in water make it swell then when dry should come unstuck.

   be nice to see that mill running with a nice pic of the amp meter .
its a ill wind that dos no good



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 03:27:10 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Yeah, I thought about that too. For the moment Im just going to leave it. The resin went off really quick. I added less hardener than was recomended and mixed with ATH but I guess the ambient temp was high... i should have backed off the hardener a little more, or just waited till dark. The main mistake was not linseed oiling the mold before greasing it. The resin will dissolve the grease into the wood. Sealing the wood first stops this from happening. This is just one way to do this,...with what I had lying around.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by vawtman (vawtman(at)charter(dot)net) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 04:22:49 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Roy

 Very nice work indeed!

 One ? though
 On the eigth pic down it shows the surface of the mags.It looks like corrosion is starting to set in.Did you sand the failed coating an coat with your epoxy?

 A couple of mine had that.



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 05:31:52 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

no, these are actually small air bubbles in the casting. Before I pour (and these rotors are cast upside down) I clean everything with acetone very well, including the mags to make sure everything adheres well. Like I said before, when casting with pure West Systems epoxy, the viscosity is very low and it is hard to keep out the air bubbles. If you take a look at the castings that were made with the ATH mixed in (they are white, not clear), there are no air bubbles because it is more viscous after I mix in the ATH. I let it sit for 10 mins after I mix in the ATH and pour the rotor. They come out much better this way.

When I heat up (expand) the stainless bands and set then on the rotors, I actually try to get them to be offset slightly towards the inside of the alternator. If you were to measure the inside depth of the band from the inside of the rotor, the depth would be slightly over .5". This is  enough so that when they are poured and the cover goes on, it doesn't quite touch the magnet face. This causes a layer of epoxy over the inner face of the magnet. I feel this seals everything in and tends to make a more weather tight seal so there is not any corrosion problems later on.

Hope I explained this right. :-)
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by blueyonder (windwoodgood at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 05:27:58 PM MST
(User Info)

reply to roy.   today i just finished potting a stator .
  i got sum pics i will post soon.  my first stator got so hot i could feel the
heat through the mould. the wood used was a thing called chipboard and very thick.

  i think i could have fried a egg on the outside of that mould
   after i got the stator out i found it was convex one side and concave the other.
    but as it was only for a single rotor machine it was ok.

   reply to vawtman .its only small air bubbles you can see(very small)
its a ill wind that dos no good



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by hapuna beach on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 09:25:09 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Roy,

You've done a great job! Will be interested in how they perform!

I wanted to ask where you got your hub from? It looks like a top quality unit as compared to some I've seen.

Thanks,

Hapuna



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by oztules (oztules__at__bigpond.com) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 03:31:53 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery/Oztules-toys

I am out of town at the moment (overseas) but have perloined a computer to check in briefly.... only to find a perfect post.

Beautiful work there Roy, I live for this stuff.

.......oztules
Flinders Island Australia



Re: fun projects (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by finetune on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 06:45:44 PM MST
(User Info)

Great work Roy Im a Roy too. I started using towlet donut wax for all of my molds you dont need linseed oil plus they are so cheap to purchase. Good Luck Keep up the good work. ROY/ Llakepond@aol.com



fun projects | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 editorial)
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