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Florida HAWT Project: Worth It?


By DigitizeLife, Section Wind
Posted on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 10:04:08 PM MST
After researching designs and doing some preliminary calculations, is it even worth attempting to build a wind-generator in Florida?

My family has lived on 3 acres in the rural Sarasota/Bradenton area for 30 years now. As a family of DIY'ers, we've been itching to make use of the back acre of unused pasture by raising an HAWT Generator, and maybe even help reduce our 1,500kWH/month nasty habit. We've taken the first-steps to rehabilitation by adding insulation, adopting a conservative lifestyle, and even heating our 200 gallon water heater with solar. But, we still drank about 18,000kWH last year from the local pub we call FPL (Florida Power & Light).

So, we have a bare acre of land with nothing but grass, sun, and wind for a few hundred feet in any direction (and nothing else for a few thousand feet in the E.N.E. prevailing direction). Also, three 20' sections of steel pipe, a garage full of tools and materials, and a family of resourceful builders are in our arsenal. Envisioning a 60' tower in the middle of this pasture with a wind-turbine chopping through Florida storm-winds is enough to get any green-geek like myself excited.

Wind Statistics for Bradenton/Sarasota, Florida

Although our annual average wind speed is around 9.3 MPH, during the rainy seasons in this part of Florida (and especially hurricane season), we see afternoon thunderstorms almost every other day. These storms easily produce winds of 16 MPH and can approach 30 MPH quite often. So, we are faced with two options here;

  1. Construct a typical HAWT to make power in the low average winds of 9 MPH.
  2. Take advantage of the exponential energy potential of higher wind speeds and build a rig able to make power in, and withstand the Florida storms (albeit for a much shorter duration of the year).
Assuming we can design, assemble, and erect a unit well enough to utilize about 30% of the winds total potential energy, we would have to fly a 15' diameter turbine in our 9 MPH average winds to produce a mere 206 watts of electricity. If my math is right, that's 150kWH/month; 10% of our 1,500kWH/month average. With an average utility bill of $150/month, that's a savings of $15/month, or $180/year. With such a mediocre net result, it's hardly worth mentioning the inevitable disaster that a 15' diameter HAWT would create for a first-timer.

So, is there a way to have my cake and eat it too? Can we extract the gobs of power available in our storm-winds, help offset our utiliy bill, and do it all with salvaged materials and a little ingenuity? Let's look a little closer.

Let's say optimistically, that during the rainy season, we get 2 hours of sustained storm wind every day. We would still need to generate 2,459 watts throughout the duration of the storm in order to make the same 150kWH that our 15' turbine could generate each month. That would require a HAWT & tower that could stand-up and face head-on into 25 MPH winds for two hours, and have 12' diameter blades.

That's alot of speculation and even more dangerous circumstances. So, is wind energy a feasible alternative energy source for small-scale residential use in this area? That begs & remains to be answered. With such a small amount of energy being produced, offsetting so little expense, we would have to be very resourceful and creative to keep costs down. Otherwise, it would take years to even cover the cost and of the materials.

Considering the generator will be mounted atop a 60' tower, I would be comfortable designing and building no larger than a 8' - 10' diameter HAWT in order for it to remain an affordable, safe, and durable project. Here are some approximate figures;

  1. ' @ 9 MPH = 91 watts * 24hrs * 30.5 days = 67kWH/month = 4.4% Savings ($6.70/month)
  2. ' @ 9 MPH = 74 watts * 24hrs * 30.5 days = 54kWH/month = 3.6% Savings ($5.40/month)
  3. ' @ 9 MPH = 58 watts * 24hrs * 30.5 days = 42kWH/month = 2.8% Savings ($4.20/month)
This means with a 10' diameter rotor we would be saving about $80 per year on our power bill. Assuming we could build it all for $300, the system would take almost 4 years to pay-off. Unless my calculations are completely wrong (which they may very well be), it doesn't look like wind energy is a very viable method of reducing energy costs for low-wind applications.

Note: Wind energy is a very new concept for me and I am only beginning to learn the fundamentals of how it all works. My methods of calculating kWH/month and potential power (watts) from wind systems is based on articles and formulas posted online. Please feel free to correct any figures or suggest better alternatives, as I would very much like to see a wind generator in my future!

Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by DigitizeLife (John -At- DigitizeLife -Dot- com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 04:14:09 PM MST
(User Info) DigitizeLife.com

Ok, I just noticed one thing. The wind speed is in knots. So our annual average is actually 10.7 mph instead of 9.3 mph. That's a little better, but still nothing great.
John Craig DigitizeLife.com


Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by kurt on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:06:47 PM MST
(User Info)

if your annual wind average wind speed is 10.7 mph you are in a relatively good wind area actually IMHO.

http://www.reresource.org/

IRC


Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Stator on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:42:44 PM MST
(User Info)

      You did a tremendous amount of research and data gathering for the project. As much as most engineers do. One comment: The energy savings you gain today are not the only factor in deciding to go ahead with the project. If you factor in inflation and the inevitable increase in energy rates in the future, your project looks more attractive, with a shorter payback period. Good luck and congratulations on an excellent analysis.  



Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by wdyasq on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:58:24 PM MST
(User Info)

As long as it rains in the afternoon, I'll rain a bit.

Your greatest expense may be the tower. I'd guess you will spend $1500 on a tower - or more. This makes a small turbine less than an Ideal choice. You will also have not so cheap inverters and non-free batteries (unless you bribe the beer-girl at the local golf course and liberate golf cart batteries - hint, steal the batteries - when he replaces the stollen batteries with new ones, switch his old batteries back into the golf cart.)

I will recommend a smaller turbine as a 'warm-up' project - an ~10' or so and use that experience to help you with a 17-20' mill.

And, joking aobut liberating batteries.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen



Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 07:30:41 PM MST
(User Info)

DigitizeLife,

Interesting thing about averages, every day has several hours without wind, dusk and dawn are common times without wind. To get a 9mph average the actual wind speed when the wind blows will be couple MPH faster, just about doubles the power! Time to recalculate.

Wind turbine can be designed to handle both conditions, might not be for a first timer. Variable pitch can do it. Suggest to build the larger for the lower speeds, then work on a variable pitch design.
Breezy 5.5 might do it also, plans are available. Another solution is to build two wind turbines, low speed and high. Couple years ago some fella wanted to produce power in 150mph average winds. Antarctica. He did it. Worked much better than solar!!

Have fun,
Scott.




Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by GeeMac (foxunc@telus.net) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 08:31:14 PM MST
(User Info)

Eighty bucks a year means about one month of free power. I'd do it anyway just to screw the power company out of some cash.
GeeMac


Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by zeusmorg on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 09:37:40 PM MST
(User Info)

 Al little addendum to payback times, If you also saved and invested the monthly saving on the power bills, the amortization time lowers dramatically, so would you be better off investing the additional 300 and using the interest to pay the bills? Or would you be better off saving and investing the 80/yr. for paying those bills?

 A 10% savings on utility costs is nothing to scoff at! I bet you could find other areas worth doing to reduce utility usage, also.

 My scheme for RE independence is maybe a bit unique. I origionally started with $50, and used that to invest in energy savings, I have since used the interest gained to pay for additional savings, and I also add any monies saved off my power bill on a monthly basis for increasing my "solar fund". Once it is big enough to build a usable system then I'll pop for the solar panels, which is really the only viable option in my location, wind here is pitiful! I am getting close to being able to start my investment in solar now.

 



Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by altosack (altosack-at-yahoo-dot-com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 05:38:11 PM MST
(User Info)

Hello DigitizeLife,

Nice start to your analysis, and I agree with two (or more) posters above, fleshed out a little:

- Average wind speed does not usually give a good picture of total available wind resource; your actual resource will usually be quite a bit higher once the cube factor of speed is taken into account (usually about twice, but YMMV). It's best to use things like "% of time above x wind speed" such as in the chart in your post. For example, in this case, you know that more than 30% of the time for 4 months, you have at least Beaufort 4 winds (look up what that means; I'm too lazy at the moment).

Also, you need to know what height the average wind speed is for. Usually, unless the info is specifically for wind generators, it's at 3m (10 feet), so your average wind speed at your tower height will be higher (for your relatively flat - I assume relatively treeless locale - you can use the 1/7th power law, i.e., wind speed at x height = wind speed at y height * (x/y)^(1/7)).

- Even if the math doesn't work out quite right, go ahead and do it, and start small (7-10' diameter). You will have gained valuable information about your wind resource and your abilities, and you will have had a lot of fun !

Never underestimate the value of doing a project like this; it's much more than what you will save from your power bill, even if it is a fact that you will always underestimate the cost by a factor of between 2 and 10, depending on your savvyness.

  • Do not necessarily believe the "big guys" who say that "wind power doesn't work for 'x' locale because...". For the overhead they are dealing with, that may be true for them vs. placing it in another location such as a mountain pass, but you are dealing with very different criteria, and you are in control of your overhead and how much value you place on it.
  • Unless you are in a place with quite consistent winds, I always recommend a few solar panels to augment a wind generator. Consider installing about 100-300W, and starting your system with solar, which is quite a bit easier than a wind generator and gives you a good idea of how hands-on you want to be and how much you like making your own power. When you want more power (and people usually do, it's addictive !), start on the wind generator, and start small.
From what you have said, I get the idea that you are somewhat of a techie, and I think you will gain a lot from the experience of "just doing it."

Best of Luck,
Dave



Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Todd a on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 09:15:09 AM MST
(User Info)

What altitude were those wind readings taken from?  Most nation servey are for 50m in hieght.  If those are from your own wind speed sensor, what height did you run it at?  If say you placed it on a pole off your roof at say 30' and you are running a HAWT at 60' then you are looking at a bit more wind.  If these are readings from 150' and you are running at 60' then your wind speed will be much lower.

That said I would likely go with a standard Hughs Piggott style (likely spelled really bad).  Something in the range of 12-15 foot would likely do you well.  Here are some great pages on building these...

http://otherpower.com/17page1.html

http://otherpower.com/new17page1.shtml

This second one is a second 17' that they made and includes some improvements.  One thing you really need to be carefull of is reliability.  Make it tough, do good welds, protect everything from rust, use tread lock and lock washers, and use very strong bearings (and grease the snott out of them).  The blades should be coated with a marine grade sealer or epoxy coating.  The tower needs to be very strong with lots of support wires.  A tip tower would be nice incase you have a huricane coming in or you need repares.

Now you need to keep a few other things in mind... It sounds like your tower is going to be a long ways from your house.  The power from the stator is A/C and is run through bridge rectifiers or diodes to make it DC.  DC does not travel long distances well.  It would be best to convert directly to 110v A/C.  Make a little shed at the tower base with you breakers, load dump, fuses, and invertor (and battery if you are looking at a power back-up or off grid set-up).  Also realize that an on-grid or grid tied invertor is VERY expensive.  I have been looking around and even for a 2Kw you are looking at about $2000 or more.  Also even at AC you might get voltage drop running to the house.  you might need a transformer at the house to get a full 110v.  Also the cabling might be pretty expensive if you are running a few hundred yards to the house.



Re: Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Garry on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 01:22:38 PM MST
(User Info)

You might check all the postings by a user named harrie. He builds giant mills for low wind speed and appears quite successful.
Garry



Florida HAWT Project: Worth It? | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)
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