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Is this idea cracked?


By quailman, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 at 08:33:28 PM MST
Is two better than one

Good day to all I built an alternator based on the otherpower ten foot design.I bought their std. 12 volt  stator and used the 1 by 2 by1/2 neo mags I used the 12 inch volvo brake roters and hub. It works great on the bench but wow its heavy. So I thought what if I get another strut make a 2nd frame and stator only use one magnet rotor on each and then place a 1/8 steel plate in front of the stator to have a rotating laminate.Then I would have two instead of one and not having all eggs in one basket always appeals to me. I figure cut in speed would go up and blade size would need to less but by how much for each? If a make a 2nd stator can anyone tell me the awg and number of turns to bring that cut in speed back down to its original design. I also thought this way I would be able to use lighter wire size and charge controller to my batteries I thank you for your help and thoughts on this.
Is this idea cracked? | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by scoraigwind (magnet@scoraigwind.co.uk) on Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 at 03:53:10 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk

The idea will work and it will make your magnets go further, but with the original stator you will probably be running about 1/3 or 1/2 faster and so you would want to reduce blade diameter to about 7 foot.  Or put on more turns but your resistance will double.

You can find out with some simple tests once the alternator is assembled.  Mail me directly for advice on this if you like.  I  tend to forget to look at this board after I enter a discussion.

My new 2008 plans (Wind turbine recipe book) contains a chapter with useful equations for this sort of stuff so that readers can in theory do the calcs alone, but I am still here to help.  Sorry the new plans are only in metric units (millimeters) thus far, but I hope to convert them to inches before I visit North America next year.

best wishes
Hugh Piggott http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk



Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by quailman on Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 at 04:31:28 PM MST
(User Info)

Thank you for time.So if I understand this correctly if Imake a new stator for the second turbine I would use more turns and larger wire to bring down cutin speed.would this also call for a larger blade?

[ Parent ]


Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Flux on Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 at 04:42:26 PM MST
(User Info)

No not even you could be so lucky, life doesn't quite work that way.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by scoraigwind (magnet@scoraigwind.co.uk) on Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 at 11:47:15 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk

"if I make a new stator for the second turbine I would use more turns and larger wire to bring down cutin speed.would this also call for a larger blade?"

If you use more turns and larger wire then the coils will not fit the stator.  To fit the stator with more turns per coil, you will need to use thinner wire.  The longer, thinner wire will have much higher resistance.  So your maximum output will be reduced to about half.  Using the 10 foot blade you can produce more power in low winds.  But if you want high power in high winds, then the seven foot blade will actually deliver higher power without burning out, because it will have a lower internal resistance with its thicker wire.

Personally I tend to go for a larger diameter with a lower max power because that results in steadier power output, but most people prefer the idea of a high maximum power even if it is rarely actually seen due to the small diameter of the blades.

I hope you understand the trade-off.

Best wishes,

Hugh
Hugh Piggott http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk
[ Parent ]



Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by quailman on Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 at 06:53:45 PM MST
(User Info)

Ok I have never been lucky. However I am unable to get much from your comment.would I then wind a stator with say ten more turns than my original in the same awg stay with the 7ft blade get a lower cut in speed and also a lower max output.Iunderstand from reading this board that things are always a trade.I have read many of your posts and would appreciate your help



Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Flux on Mon Aug 4th, 2008 at 12:59:42 AM MST
(User Info)

No you wouldn't have got much from that comment, it was past bedtime by a fair bit.

You started well in your introduction and I thought Hugh gave you a fairly precise answer and the offer of help.

From your reply you seem to have completely misunderstood the whole thing and my comment was just to make you think.

Although Hugh said that he may not come back, he did and I hope you can follow the explanation. If we could use less magnets for larger blades and keep everything else we should all be on a winner.

You can always get any cut in speed you want with any quantity of magnets, but cut in doesn't really determine blade size, it works the other way. Blade size decides your expected power level and you need a cut in to match the blades. You also need to be able to safely handle the output of those blades in the useful wind speeds.

It would be safer to accept the higher cut in speed with smaller blades and you could still see the same power out as with the original alternator, but in higher winds.

Hugh points out that you can reduce the cut in speed to match the original 10ft blades in low winds and if you are in a poor wind area it has some merit and I have sometimes suggested this to people. The big snag is that with the slower winding you reduce the maximum power capability of the alternator and you also reach it in fairly low winds.

For this to work satisfactorily you need to be able to furl the thing in quite modest winds. From comments I have seen here over a period I am not sure that many people can achieve this reliably so I have been reluctant to continue this advice.

I see you are using Volvo parts and see you mention struts, I hope you are intending to furl this and not copy Dan's early faith and hope approach.

As long as you understand the full implications of the problems of using the 10ft blades and can solve the furling issue then you can get two 10ft machines for the cost of magnets normally used for one and the energy capture on most days in a low Wind area will be significantly better.

If you are in a higher wind area or have never built any form of furling machine before then I would strongly advise you to go for the smaller prop and accept the higher cut in. Your total energy capture will not be much greater with two machines than the original planned bigger one, perhaps a little better but you don't have all your eggs in one basket.

Not sure that the 1/8" thick flux return disc is thick enough magnetically or mechanically I would not use less than 1/4".

You can use slightly lighter cables for each mill but with the two mills I can't see any hope of gain there. Similarly I see no gain with the charge controller.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Mon Aug 4th, 2008 at 04:20:20 AM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

It is often repeated around here that
you can get more power out of 1 larger generator, than 2 smaller gennys made with the same parts.
W o o f -={(



Re: Is this idea cracked? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by tecker on Tue Aug 5th, 2008 at 04:01:27 PM MST
(User Info)

Yes the stator you bought is probably too thick  to give good power with a single rotor will probably over speed voltage may run up well but the amperage will seem to disapeare with a load .



Is this idea cracked? | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 editorial)
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