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Hacking my hot water heater
By yakas, Section Water Posted on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 07:21:41 PM MST
Ideas

Hi smart creative people. I have a nice new large hot water heater that i got for free. I have no electricity, or at least not enough to control my hot water heater as far as i know. I do have tanks of propane that i would love to connect to the water heater and be able to turn on when needed. I need to figure out the thermostat/pilot light situation. So I can turn on the flame 20 or so mins before and then use the hot water, then turn it all off again. As needed style. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. I will get the model number and such info for monday but its just a typical tank, pretty big, maybe 75 gallons or so.
Thanks a million and if is doable you are all invited to shower at my beautiful outdoor shower with a view of majestic rock cliffs and mountains across the valley.

Hacking my hot water heater | 18 comments (18 topical)

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by veewee77 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 01:37:24 PM MST

Is this a gas water heater or an electric one?
If it is electric, forget it. Just get a gas one.
If it is gas, make sure it is set up for propane and not NG.
Get a long lighter, like the one used to light a fire.
Light WH when you want. Turn off when you don't.
Pretty simple. . .

The valve won't last a long time doing that because they aren't made to be used as a manual on-off control. They are designed to be automatic.

Disclaimer: I do NOT endorse doing this! There is no provision to shut off the gas when the water reaches critical temp (and pressure) and if you have never been around when something with water firmly contained at or above 212 degrees is suddenly let go, you are lucky!
It is NOT something you will want to experience.
The pop-off valve should keep it from exploding, but again, there will be lots of water at very dangerous temperatures!

If the WH will NOT be indoors, you could replace the automatic valve with an appropriate manual valve, and rig in a barbecue grill spark ignition.

Then turn on gas, ignite, wait til hot and turn off.

Doug

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by vawtman on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 02:55:22 PM MST

Has long has the pilot is lit the thermocoupler generates the electricity to run the unit. Make sure it's setup for the gas your running.If not change the orifice.Or is one of those powerventers.
Mark

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by spinningmagnets on Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 03:07:58 PM MST

If you put Propane into a burner (water heater/barbeque/etc) that is made for methane it will run rich. Putting methane into a propane appliance will run lean.

Even if using the proper gas, it may be out of adjustment and might produce poisonous Carbon Monoxide. Every year, illegal aliens sleeping in garages they rented will die in their sleep.

There is a device called a thermocouple that senses heat. If the pilot flame goes out (from wind?) and then the main burner comes on, the room would be flooded by flammable gas. To prevent this, when the main burner comes on if the thermocouple doesn't sense any heat, a valve shuts off the gas. (or I think thats how it works)

Poisonous gas and flammable gas explosions...be careful.

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by wdyasq on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 06:47:59 AM MST

This might be a great cantidate for a batch style solar water heater.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by thefinis on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 08:52:54 AM MST

I think that Ron is right on here if you were given an electric water heater. Solar water heating can be simple and an insulated holding tank should be a big plus. Do a search here on batch water heating for ideas on wood or solar.

To use propane you really need a gas water heater set up for it because they have the safe guards and a reasonably efficient design built in. There are ways to incorporate water heating or preheating in some systems off the waste house heat but it tends to work best when you are heating the house.

Finis
Texas born and bred
[ Parent ]

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by GaryGary on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 09:46:45 AM MST

Hi,
I guess the first thing to think about is safety. Water heater explosions are extremely violent -- they can literally destroy homes. One of the reasons that solar water heating became popular for a while years and years ago was that the early commercial gas water heaters did not have any thermostat, and had to be monitored by hand -- there were a lot of explosions. The "new" solar water heaters were advertised as having a big safety advantage because they would not blow up :)

You might take a look at this scheme:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/PilotLights.htm
Don basically just runs the pilot light all the time on his water heater, and has it set up so the main burner never turns on. The pilot alone provides enough heat for two people. So, I guess, you might be able to use this, or some similar sort of fixed flame that is set to just meet your daily demand. Just be certain that you have a good, working pressure/temperature relief valve hooked up to the tank in such a way that it cannot be isolated from the tank with any of your shutoff valves -- maybe two of them.

I like the suggestion for making it into a solar batch heater -- getting a good tank is the hardest part about building one of these, and you have that already:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/water_heating.htm#Batch

Gary
Gary gary@BuildItSolar.com www.BuildItSolar.com

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by dnix71 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:22:34 PM MST

The pilot alone is more than enough heat. I had a neighbor who complained that his water was scalding hot. I turned down the heat adjustment dial to warm and it didn't get any cooler.

His gas bill was high, too. So, I got down on my knees and looked at the pilot. It was 4 or 5 inches high. There was a set screw for pilot height under a cap on the front. After turning it down to something reasonable, his heater worked like it should have.

I city worker did that incorrect adjustment, too. The one that lit my stove didn't know how to light the pilot for the oven. The oven reeked of leaking gas until I crawled in there to check for myself. I had to leave the windows open all the time just to keep the fumes down. I put a manual shutoff for my stove on the back. The gas is on now ONLY when I cook.

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by dnix71 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:23:27 PM MST

"A city worker ..."

[ Parent ]

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by kurt on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 05:15:49 PM MST

on my fathers 25 foot travel trailer it had like a 5 gal propane water heater we never actually turned that thing on just left it on pilot and that made plenty of hot water for dishes once a day and for washing your hands ext. but you really need to make sure you have a thermocouple safety valve in there to turn off all the gas if the pilot goes out.....

IRC inst.
just a personal rant carry on.

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by yakas on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:38:48 AM MST

Sorry I havent got back sooner, thanks for the knowledge. I got my WH specs. Its a Rheem Powervent with electronic ignition. Model 21VP50E. I will read your comments now.

[ Parent ]

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by yakas on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:52:08 AM MST

The WH will be outside in open air. Also I intend on having a 5 gallon propane bottle to feed it and I will turn the gas off at the tank after each use. We are going to heat water only for immediate use in our outside shower. Safety is very important to me also I live in a high fire danger area and don't want to start a forest fire. The plan is simple, turn on gas, light flame, heat water, turn off gas, use water. Repeat.
As far as turning into solar , we currently have a solar set up that consists of a 20 foot 3inch pvc pipe that has a hose going in one end and it comes out the other side to the shower. I will have it flow into the WH to save some gas. We are expanding upon the current system because we live on a north facing slope and light will become scarce in the months to come.

Thanks again
Jason

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by jonas302 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:33:32 PM MST

Really sounds like a nice shower! I understand you got it free what would work super great would be an ondemand water heater though maybe throw it on craigslist and upgrade?

[ Parent ]

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by GaryGary on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:02:42 PM MST

Hi,
I guess this is obvious, but you still need the pressure/temperature relief valve on it just in case you accidentally leave the gas on.

Gary
Gary gary@BuildItSolar.com www.BuildItSolar.com
[ Parent ]

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by desertcoyote on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:39:41 PM MST

The electric WH is good for solar heated water. converting it to propane is ludicrous.
If you can not use it. Just sell or trade is for something appropriate. Do not try and put the square peg in the round hole, unless yo want a broken peg, smashed thumbed, wasted pegboard. might as well use it for bullet practice.

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by yakas on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 12:20:57 PM MST

This is a propane water heater that has a electronic ignition. SO it seems if I was to get all the electric stuff off it, it might work

[ Parent ]

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by desertcoyote on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 08:36:49 PM MST

Sorry I miss understood. I never had one with electronic ignition. Maybe hook a tazer into it, those are battery powered

[ Parent ]

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by zeusmorg on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:55:50 PM MST

I doubt the amperage requirements for that electronic ignition are all that high. but if you did give us the make and model # someone on the board may be able to give you information on things like converting it over, or what the best way to use it would be.

Re: Hacking my hot water heater (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by yakas on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:23:43 AM MST

Its a 50 Gallon Rheem Powervent 21pv50e, the pv might be a vp, im a little dyslexic.

[ Parent ]

Hacking my hot water heater | 18 comments (18 topical)

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