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Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing
By mixerman, Section Storage Posted on Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 11:11:56 PM MST
Problem with charger! other questions

I have 2 craftsman drills, a 13.2 V and a new 19,2 V. The problem I have these tools allways live a short life for me. I curently use only the 19.2 and it works well, I only charge it when I notice that its not performing well.
My 13.2v drill came with 2 power packs I only got about a year out of them. I didnt use them very much. The charger that come with them is the wall wort type and only does a slow charge.The last few days I got them out to try and figure out whats going on with them, dont know if its the charger or batterys or both. I took 1 battery pack apart, I also took apart the charging cradle and wart.
The problem is that when I place the pac in the cradle the red led charging light does not come on, but a meter connected to the output terminals read .30V.

Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing | 22 comments (22 topical)

Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by wooferhound on Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 08:34:15 PM MST

Someone on here was fixing his Nickel Cadmium batteries by pulsing them a Few times with with a DC voltage that was 10 times the rating of the batteries.
a 1.2 vdc NiCad battery would be pulsed with 12 vdc surges.

W o o f -={(

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by hiker on Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 09:41:34 PM MST

ive brought those type of batts back to life..
just use a 12v car batt--batt. charger--just momentarly hit the batt a few times
with the high volts and amps--it breaks throu the barrier that those type of batteries
get after awhile--then its able to accept a full charge..not as good as a new batt but close.......[be careful just hit it a few times with the higher volts-it could explode
in your hands if over done!!!!]
WILD IN ALASKA
[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by mixerman on Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 10:07:23 PM MST

This sounds like a "electric enema"
Ill try it!

Must this be done to each barrery or can I do the string of 11, 1.2 batterys.

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by hiker on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:41:32 AM MST

you could try -blasting all at once-would most likly have to hit them a few more times to break throu the blockage..if that doesent work then try one at a time.....
just be careful........!
WILD IN ALASKA
[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Norm on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:28:34 AM MST

I like to check each individual cell and then zap
each individual one with 12 volts from
like even a 12 volt car battery ...
like Hiker says careful!
Full face shield ?? protective clothing?? Absolutely !

( :>) Norm

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by mixerman on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 12:18:44 PM MST

Here is what I did:

With the Pack still all connected together , I connected to each cell and connected a battery charger set a 10 amps then montary connected the + for about 5 seconds each , after doing this the battery was only alittle warm. I used plexe glass as a sheild, this was all done out in garage on the bench.

I brought the battery pack in and hooked up Craftsman charger that came with the drill, the red led is lite and charging the batterys. This will probly going to be awhile to see what it does.

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by DoctorCon on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 06:16:43 AM MST

I never thought of trying to reclaim NICADs like this - but have seen the same problem with drill batteries before. The best advice I have come across for the 2 battery pack drills is to use only the one battery pack at a time.
The NICADs seem to like to be either fully charged or in use, and if you only use your drill infrequently then alternating the batteries seems to cause the slow death of both. I still have a much loved 12v which only lost its 2nd battery after about 9 years of use. I used the one battery pack for about 5-6 years - always FULLY draining before recharging (eg when the drill losses its 'grunt' then continue to spin it at no load until it stops / if your battery is hot then wait till cool and 'spun-out' before recharging) and trying NOT to leave the drill for a long period with only a partial charged battery - better to just use the charge on air-drilling (used to jam mine in the pushed closed kitchen drawer until I had kids! - now use a cable tie or bit of wire to hold the trigger) and then recharge / store.
My second battery sat on the bottom shelf of the (frost-free) fridge (constant cool and dry conditions here folks) wrapped in plastic food wrap for years until the first one died and then stil put in over 3 years service.
If you can stand the inconvenience of not always having a charged battery at hand - then this strategy may help prolong the life of your NICADs
An apple a day keeps the doctor away
[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by mixerman on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 12:02:25 PM MST

It took about 7 hours to bring the batterys to 12.62 V with the wort charger, thats a bit short of 13.2V. The batterys are only slight warm.

I have never delibertly discharged the batterys before charging, I just run them until thay no longer do the job, usually a 2" drywall screw wont go all the way. Maybe thats not what im doing right!

I have seen on job sites where carpenters would rubber bands on there drills for discharging.

resently I got a battery charger from a guy that has a dischare funcion built into it, so I guess discharging is a good idea. Thanks for the input.

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by mixerman on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 12:57:26 PM MST

update:

of the batterys get a charge of around 1.40 v
zero charge

I guess I could try giving these 2 batterys another "elecrtic enema" before replacing them with new ones or I may just take some other good used ones out of the other power pack.

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by mixerman on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 02:51:09 PM MST

I gave the 2 batterys a additional enema, brought them inside and now I get a reading on them. The pack is now upto 14.5 V Im happy!

Now its on to the other battery pack.

Thanks everyone for the help.

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by Bruce S on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 03:15:37 PM MST

hey Mixerman;
From the look of those cells, they are Sub-C and probably 800 up to 1300ma in capacity.
The walwart probably has an output that allows the pack to safely charge over a 15 hour period and then stats to cook them.

Send the specks and we can cipher the rate:-]

You could find a walwart that charges faster but would need to know the density of the packs first, and should not go over C10 rate.

Once you got it to charge up to 14.5 which is 1.30v that is good, would also be good to run them back down to low about 3 - 5 times to re-prime the batts. Just let the packs come to full charge each time you do.
While looking at the pics REAL close one of them seems to have white stuff on it, don't mess with it with bare hands, that's the icky not good for you stuff. known as "Vented Cadmium" juice, a little for old batts is okay, but normally the sign of a batt shorting internally. let the pack rest a day and if the pack drops below 12 then one or more of the cells is toast.
NiCds last longest when stored completely discharged, then when needed for use allowed to fully charge or taken to a batt place to be Primed.
Normal NiCds should read coming straight off full charge, up around 1.45.

If you need replacements, and are handy with a soldering iron, shoot me a private email, I have a "few" spare sticks I can send for you to "rework", S&H fees apply
:-), USA only, once out of US the shipping gets real pricy.

Capacity could be an issue, but mine are tested to be 1300ma.

Cheers!
Bruce S

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by mixerman on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 04:17:23 PM MST

The batterys have a D on them, 1300mAH, D3,C37,! There's 11 of them per pack. The wort input : ac120 6.6w
output/puissance : DC20V 200 mA

The instructions say a completly discharged battery will take 3 to 5 hours to be at full charge.

The battery pack does not have any type of sensor buried in the pack , the charging cradle has a red led indacating when a charge is in progress.

Here is what happens: I placed the pack in the charger (after being zapped with 10 amps 12V for 2 seconds) the red light comes on and charging begins, within 10 minutes the light will go out, I pulled the pack and took a reading and get 8.5 V. Somthing is cloging the works up. These batterys have been sitting for a few years.

really didnt pay much attention to the white stuff, not much of it, Ill wipe it off with a rag.

I have another charger but I dont know much about it. I dont think its for packs this large, maybe 6 or 7 cells,its for remote control car packs. Its kinda neat though, it can operat off dc or ac, and has a discharge feature.

Thanks for the input
Denny

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by Bruce S on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 07:52:23 AM MST

mixerman;
seems to be something like a constant C5 charging. Okay if you're watching it, but once charged it'll just keep charging and eventually cook 'em, you could use a wall timer to keep them from being cooked after say 6 hours.
The charger will drop the 20v down to the battery voltage with a constant current, which is what NiCds like best.

What's the voltage of the other charger? it may be adjustable for these.

Will hook up after short vacation:-)
Cheers
Bruce S

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by mixerman on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 12:38:28 PM MST

The output is 7.2-24v Dc 1.6 Am thats for the fast charger #1425301.

I have another charger a guy gave me , its trickel charge rate is 100 mAh. (Pictured)

I have been trying to drain the battery pack down with acouple of tail ligh bulbs but ther is afew cells that dont drain past 1.25, I have no problem taking the pack up to 14.5 on a charge, about 5 hours. All the cells read about 1.40 after the charge.

Talk more when you get back.

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by Bruce S on Mon Jan 12, 2009 at 09:19:23 AM MST

I'm back:-)
Suffered "small" set-back with 1 power pack :-(, but let's see if we can get you a few sticks of power.
Cheers
Bruce S

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Nothing40 on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 07:59:19 PM MST

I've used the "zapping" trick on NiCd's a few times.
If they are left unused,or discharged for a long period,they can build up little 'crystals' between the + and - terminals,essentially short-circuiting the cell.

I usually use a 12-24V supply,with a lamp (automotive tail-light bulb) wired in series with the + lead,to a BIG capacitor. You supply power,the bulb glows,and limits the current into the cap and battery,let the cap charge (the lamp will go dim after a second.),and hit the cell with the charged cap a couple times. It usually takes care of it..I've noticed the cells don't seem to last as long afterward,but it's better than nothing!

Another 'Trick' I've heard about is to whack the cells with a hammer(!) You've got to be sure to hit it square-on,onthe bottom (flat part) of the cell. This is supposed to break up the little internal 'crystals' also.

Personally,I just use the charged capacitor method. :)

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Norm on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:14:25 AM MST

I have a Craftsman 14.4v (12x1.2v=14.4v)
I usually run one until it drops to about 12v,
which is really sluggish on a speed bore 1/2 soft
wood drill....then switch to a fresh batt.pak
that I have charged to about 16.2 (about 1.35 per
cell)or in your case with 11 cells, 14.85v...
I have a 'smart charger' that would recharge these
batt.paks in about an hour but the paks I now have
look like the smart charger batt.paks but they
have a different number...in other words they
are made for the slow charger.
I seldom need both batteries full charged.
(16v.)

Works for me....I try to use the drill at least
once a week...both paks.driving 2 or 3 ...3 inch
deck screws into some scrap wood....
The cells in mine are 'c size 1300Ma/Hr ' ,
yours are probably the same.

If you would have had a 'smart charger' that
batt.pak would have had a third wire going to
one of the cells....a probe to monitor 'something' ??
to enable the charger to
fast charge safely...

If you want to take advantage of Bruce's offer,
...It's a real bargain...as you'll quickly find
out if you do some Googling.

...and I think you have to have the batteries
connected to your charger to see if it's working.

( :>) Norm

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by mixerman on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 11:47:22 AM MST

The 13.2 drill outfit I got is the one just before yours came out. Ill bet the board in the charging cradle is the same as yours, the 14.4! My board is missing some parts (pictured) The power pack has 3 terminals but only 2 are used!

I have a 19.2 now and it came with a 1 hour charger, it has 3 lights on it.

I would like to use all these power packs rather than just letting them sit around waiting for a srew job. I just installed a tile floor in the house and the 19.2 worked well, I think I charged it twice for 150 screws.

I have in the past got sub c's from radio shack made under there name, cant get them no more, they quit about 3 years ago. Now you have to get them on line.

emailed Bruce

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Norm on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:43:48 PM MST

No .....batt.pak says to charge with 981481-001
but it's the one that went haywire so I use the
smart charger that came with the more expensive
cordless drill and since it's not the battery for
the smart charger the green light stays on
whenever I plug it in and stick one of the batterys in it and slow charges in a few hrs. if
they aren't too low....

I suspect that I have a couple of weak ones in the
pac. , as they don't seem to have the capacity
as they once had, overdue for a check....
( :>) Norm
[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by mixerman on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 09:27:23 AM MST

I see the 14.4 battery pack will fit the charger of the new 19.2 drill, but only charge slowely. I could also do this with the 13.2 but would have to make a adapter of some sort. I really dont need to do that though my charger still works when the batterys are what there suposed to be.

[ Parent ]

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by Norm on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 11:19:40 AM MST

Great to have batts that work again isn't it?
and such a simple cure ! Got a bunch of them ....
works about 95% of the time for me !

( :>) Norm

Re: Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by dnix71 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 06:45:43 PM MST

The enema fix works because you are reversing the cell internally if you run the pack dead too fast. The stronger cells reverse the voltage in part of the weakest cell.

I've salvaged SLA's by intentionally running the battery slowly dead a few times and then trickle charging it. One of the cells will be partially reversed if the SLA was abused by a hard fast discharge.

Powerpacks chargers Battery Testing | 22 comments (22 topical)

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