Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inverter
By nathanca, Section Wind Posted on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 10:56:39 PM MST
I got a very low-end 200-watt wind turbine on e-bay, to hook up to a small grid-tie inverter.

I got a very low-end 200-watt wind turbine on e-bay, to hook up to a small grid-tie inverter. But now that I got the turbine, it looks a little more home-made than expected, doesn't have a brand name, and the instructions are somewhat lacking. I'm ok with it though, because I want to learn more about wind power, and maybe make some improvements to this thing. Here is the product description from e-bay: "200 Watt Wind Turbine Windmill Generator - A perfect starter system, The Wind Generator is capable of 200 watts of power from its PM DC generator. It will start putting power into your batteries in low wind speeds- 7-10 MPH wind is sufficient to start charging 12 volt batteries. 100 Watt output at 20 MPH wind, 200 Watt at 30 MPH wind. Mounts to any 1-1/2" schedule #40 pipe. The generator produces DC current and has a built in blocking diode to prevent current reversal back to the generator. It can be run directly into a battery, or in conjunction with a charge controller and fuse between the battery and generator." Does anyone have experience with this (or similar) products? After searching around online, I'm thinking this is a basic "Chispito" design, almost exactly like this one: http://www.velacreations.com/makechispito.html So my questions are: 1. Should the casing gaps be sealed up somehow to prevent water from getting into the turbine? Or would that cause over-heating? 2. The wooden blades are primed, but not much, and are not very smooth; should I use a high-gloss type paint to protect and smooth? Or does this matter? 3. What is that 4-prong diode for? The instructions say to use the 2 wires coming out of the bottom pipe for hooking up to the inverter; so do I need to do anything with the diode? 4. The hub is a very heavy peice of metal, is that good or bad? I read somewhere that centrifugal inertia is good for providing more steady power, but bad because it requires more wind to start it up. Should I consider using a lighter material instead? And would this affect the balance of the unit? 5. The instructions say to mount the turbine by sliding the bottom pipe into a well-greased 1.5" pipe, which serves as the tower. Is this an adequate mounting? Another site suggested using a caster which was bolted to the top of the 1'5" pipe, and this seems better to me, but I'm not sure. 6. I'm concerned about tower design... first, will a 20-foot x 1.5" sch40 pipe hold this unit up? I think it's about 20 pounds, and I'm sure wind will add extra strain, so should I be worried? Also, are there any tower designs that don't use guy-wires? I'm thinking of putting the tower next to a sturdy 12-foot fence-post (4"x4") in the back yard, pouring more concrete around the base of the post and tower, then attaching the tower to the post at a few of spots. So, can I get away with no guy-wires here? Ok, sorry for all the questions! I've been searching and can't find the answers so far. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!!

Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inverter | 33 comments (33 topical)

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#1) by WineGuy on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 05:23:55 PM MST

WineGuy       <-----Not an expert, but have been studying too. Just a few thoughts on your questions. Hi gloss (or at least very smooth) surface is more desirable due to less friction. The hub needs to be heavy (or at least thick) to hold the blades without bending in a strong wind. The hub weight should not make TOO much of a difference unless it is a REALLY large diameter. Depending on the length of the piece sliding down into the pipe, this should work OK. You want the mill to turn in the wind, but turning in less than a 4 or 5 mile per hour wind will not matter (no usable power down there). A 20 foot tower is actually pretty short. If you are concerned about strength, you could make the bottom 10 or 15 feet out of larger diameter pipe and taper down to the 1.5 inch pipe. You can strap/bolt your pipe onto the 4x4. This will be much more sturdy  than just the pipe, but if you want to go higher, guy wires are essential. Hope this helps. I wish I was smart instead of so darn cute

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#2) by kurt on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 06:00:30 PM MST

hmmm were to begin first off lets get one thing clear you are not going to grid tie that by just hooking that thing directly up to a inverter and plugging the inverter into the grid all batteryless grid tie inverters designed for use with wind mills require a turbine that operates at high voltage what you have is a little turbine designed for 12v charging of a battery and considering the track record of most eBay sellers probably not a very good one. you do know that tying into the grid without approved equipment permits and inspections is illegal and if the electric company finds out they could disconnect your electricity, fine you, or even possibly have you arrested. there are grid tie inverters that use batteries but i highly doubt you want to buy approved equipment get the permits and inspections etc. to grid tie an eBay 200 watt wind turbine..... you need to do allot more research before you go and blow a bunch of stuff up i think.....   IRC inst. just a personal rant carry on.

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#3) by nathanca on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 06:10:40 PM MST

Thanks for the feedback guys! About the inverter... it's a 250watt unit that plugs into a normal outlet, no hard-wiring required. And it's specifically built for a 200 watt solar or wind unit. I know I'm not going to be selling power back to PG&E, but hoping to reduce my usage and get out of that 3rd pricing tier. I actually called PG&E to ask if the inverter was ok to use, and they said yes it's fine. So now I have the inverter and wind turbine in-hand, and want to get it all up and running! Am I the first person on here to try using this inverter with a wind turbine? [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#4) by RUFUS on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 08:20:34 PM MST

I think you are probobly the only guy here who got sucked in to buying one of those illegal netherlands inverters.     correct me if i'm wrong, it's from the netherlands' no U L stamp  nothing else identifying it' came out of arz. nev. and was really expensive, right?                        RUFUS [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#5) by nathanca on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 10:34:26 PM MST

Well, a lot of good things come from the netherlands... ;) And no UL doesn't = 'illegal' -right?   Ok, here's the info on the one I bought, I paid $290 for it on E-Bay, because I wasn't willing to wait and haggle to get it cheaper (around $240). They seem to be selling very well though, and the seller has a very good rating, so I couldn't be the only one. Here's the info, you tell me, did I pay too much?  Does anyone know for sure that it doesn't work? [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#6) by nathanca on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 10:38:07 PM MST

Guess that didn't work... ok, here's the pic: [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#7) by nathanca on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 10:41:23 PM MST

And this page has some more info: http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/12341/SSI_200W_DATA1_1_.pdf [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#8) by boB on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 10:43:17 PM MST

That doesn't look like an OK4U inverter (the one from Holland).   It does look sort of familiar though. boB [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#11) by ghurd on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 06:04:03 AM MST

TLG and a couple other guys are selling them. One outfit claims "Gov't Approved".  Some may be rated at 200W, but they all look the same. "And no UL doesn't = 'illegal' -right?" Like a cigar at the hospital near the O2 tanks.  Not illegal to have, probably illegal to use. "I actually called PG&E to ask if the inverter was ok to use, and they said yes it's fine." Consider getting that in writing. G- Ghurd.info [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#13) by jonas302 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 07:47:49 AM MST

Hopefully the inverter works out you might still consider putting a small battery infront of it your wind turbine voltage is going to be all over the place following the wind up and down I would think even a cheap jumperpack in there would smooth it all out for you [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#9) by nathanca on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 10:49:43 PM MST

And now that I got pic uploading worked out, here's the turbine:

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine (3.00 / 0) (#10) by electronbaby on Fri Jan 23, 2009 at 11:25:42 PM MST

Let us know how long it lasts Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF [ Parent ]

Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#12) by Boss on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 06:54:07 AM MST

I converted the pdf spec sheet to jpg  Sounds like a magic box. I guess the designers found a inexpensive method to produce a "pure sine wave" from low voltage variable DC. I bet Zantrex and Outback are drooling over this technology.   If I were writing the spec sheet I might add that eventually (the near future, when the appropriate technology is developed) the inverter may also be tied to a kitchen garbage cold fusion reactor, as long as said device remains within nominal current handling tolerances, namely 200 watts.   Brian Rodgers

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#21) by dnix71 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 03:11:40 PM MST

The makers of said inverter have put a short video on Youtube showing in run a meter backwards, so it does appear to actually work. I don't think it meets the code, though. It might be okay for an inside guerrilla install. There used to be some small plug-in grid-tie inverters made in Europe, but I don't think you can get those anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av4rLwk1unQ [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#22) by dnix71 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 03:16:34 PM MST

Here is another Youtube video on that inverter. They say just plug it in to a GFCI in your home after hooking it up to solar panels or a turbine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUQL2tg9_Fg&feature=related [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie (3.00 / 0) (#14) by luv2weld on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 07:57:27 AM MST

Read that spec sheet very closely!! Minimum input---14 - 28 volt Looks to me like it is not for a 12 volt system. Hook it to a single 12 volt battery and it will probably let the magic smoke out. Ralph "The best way to kill time is to work it to death!!"

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie (3.00 / 0) (#16) by wooferhound on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 10:53:19 AM MST

The specs also say that the inverter is for Solar Panels and never mentions Wind. W o o f -={( [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie (3.00 / 0) (#32) by nathanca on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 12:13:07 PM MST

Reading through everything again, it does look like I made a mistake on the voltage... the turbine is 12V while the system needs at least 14V. Do'h! So I can hook up a car battery to the inverter to find out? And if I do need more voltage, what to do? How would one fix this? Thanks! [ Parent ]

Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#15) by cardamon on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 08:34:28 AM MST

I cant say anything about the quality,reliability, longevity of the unit, but I would challenge anyone to cite me a law that makes its use illegal.  Of course it may be different in other jurisdictions, but here there is no requirement to use UL appproved equipment (except for a few things, even the NEC doesn't require equipment to be Listed, and this inverter would not fall under the NEC) and I have never signed an agreement with my utility saying I wont connect a power source to their power source.  I will say that if I were to sell them more power than they sold me, than that may technically make me a power producer which is covered in the net metering laws, requiring utility approval, etc.  Most people think it is illegal to bury a body on your back yard, but in most places there is no such law, not even a minimum burial depth.

Re: Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#17) by tanner0441 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 11:35:33 AM MST

Hi I bought a 12V 200W turbine from EBay, it came with a 3 section 2 1/2 inch interlocking mast with points just below the blades for the guy wires. 1 1/2 inch sounds a bit thin, it cuts in at just over 7MPH (just) and is producing the rated output at 13.5 in reality it is closer to 15MPH. The blades look like fiber glass, (needed a lot of sanding and painting). It also had a charge controler and 300W inverter. I am in the UK I paid £250 I don't know what that is in $ at the moment but I have seen similar kits but 300W advertised in the US for £275. Hope you get it sorted. Brian [ Parent ]

Re: Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#18) by wdyasq on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 01:09:58 PM MST

"I would challenge anyone to cite me a law that makes its use illegal.  Of course it may be different in other jurisdictions, but here there is no requirement to use UL appproved equipment (except for a few things, even the NEC doesn't require equipment to be Listed" Before you mount that horse you might want to check it a bit more. I know in my area if I have a device that has the potential to put power back in the wires I don't own, the electrical company does have the right to inspect and authorize the installation. They also have the right to not have my residence or business connected to the grid until I do comply with their regulations and inspections. After all of that they can demand a considerable insurance policy if I do have devices that can feed back to their lines. I either comply ... or I don't get to hook up to the grid. A lot of the laws are state wide and in 'code'. Just purchasing power you enter into a commercial agreement where each side has several mandated requirements. I don't know who you think you are that you can make demands on the electrical company, but I'd bet there are less than 100 individuals in the country who can afford to fight the electrical company. All I know just conform as the electrical company has three things; the power, the lawyers and the electrical lines. Ron Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen [ Parent ]

Re: Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#20) by dnix71 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 03:04:17 PM MST

Absolutely. If you want grid-tie then you have to get permission for anything used from the people who built and maintain the grid. That should be a no-brainer. They are not going to okay something UL doesn't list. If something goes wrong, then you are left to sue each other over who pays for the damages. It's all about the money, people. [ Parent ]

Re: Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#23) by ghurd on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 03:30:31 PM MST

I would cite UL1741, UL1741-2005, IEEE 1547. Step-up DC-AC converter may have some FCC issues too. "the electrical company has three things; the power, the lawyers and the electrical lines." I love that.  :-) G- Ghurd.info [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#19) by brokengun on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 02:00:08 PM MST

This Chispito wind turbine is quite common online, there is even an instructable for it. There are a lot of people out there making them, but I am not impressed. PVC blades are common on these types of generators and I can't say that I would put much faith in those at all. Luckily yours says it has wooden blades which is good. As for a coat a lot of people put boiled linseed oil on wooden blades and that seems to hold up pretty well. As stated before the 20 foot tower is fairly short. Also be sure to use adequate guying for whatever tower you choose. Also as for grid tying, you should really look at the costs involved there. I was considering grid tying for my small turbine and it REALLY is just no cost effective unless you have something that is bigger. I mean just tying to the grid was going to cost me a few thousand dollars not to mention the hoops I'd have to jump through. Chances are this is many times more what the whole setup is going to cost you anyways! Conclusion: it's probably not worth it to grid tie for you. IMHO I don't think you'll notice much (if any) difference with a hub that is made of a heavy material. It may provide more kinetic energy when spinning but it should be all be well balanced anyway, so that wouldn't make much difference. The only factor is if you don't think you're tower would hold the weight and I can't imagine that changing to a lighter hub would save you enough weight to have a good safety margin! Good luck with your project and as always be cautious buying from Ebay.

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#24) by dnix71 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 03:31:49 PM MST

Here is a forum comment on the inverter. It has no UL listing. It's made in the Netherlands. A poster said it used to be the ms100 microsine inverter. It had NEC ratings but those were dropped. http://www.solarpowerforum.net/forumVB/showthread.php?p=11261 has a lengthy discussion on the inverter. http://www.eere.energy.gov/de/ul_1741.html is a link to UL 1741 standards. If it is UL 1741 rated, then it meets the specs for a grid-tie. Otherwise you are on your own if you get caught.

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#25) by ghurd on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 03:43:26 PM MST

There is some confusion because a couple inverters had similar names. This new (China?) thing doesn't look anything like the old one from the Netherlands. G- Ghurd.info [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#26) by dnix71 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 07:24:00 PM MST

If you want to start off small get an EnPhase micro inverter. It is UL1741 and CSA rated and costs less anyway. http://www.pvstarter.com/sgt-160/enphase_micro_inverter.html You could still go guerrilla by plugging it into your dryer or stove outlet. The model doesn't even need to be stacked. It's already split-phase output (the common US 120/240 setup).

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#27) by fungus on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 07:46:55 AM MST

Looks like the inverter mentioned is a solar inverter, don't see any way it'd work directly with wind .. 'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Wind Turbine w/Grid Tie Inve (3.00 / 0) (#28) by dnix71 on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 12:14:44 PM MST

The other inverter isn't really wind capable, either, it just depends on the turbine having limited power. If your wind genny puts out dc and won't overload the inverter, it should work. Otherwise charge a battery from the genny and feed the inverter from that. That's probably safer anyway. Direct conversion is "use it or lose it" without some storage. Backfeeding the grid saves very little money most places. This is an expensive toy for now. [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#29) by TheUnknownCat on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 11:12:12 PM MST

Seems to me that the problem with feeding power back into the grid, via any quick and dirty source -is that the lineman from the power company cuts power and climbs their pole and grabs your backfed power. A bad scene. Prevent this.

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#30) by nathanca on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 11:05:58 AM MST

Wow, thanks again for all the feedback! I'm still trying to figure it all out, but I'm determined to get something set up, and make improvements from there. Did some more work this weekend, and I'll take some pics of everything to post soon. I made a few trips to the hardware store, put another coat of primer on the blades, assembled some pipes for the base of the tower, and dug-out the hole for cement. (Turns out that the turbine is on a 1" pipe, which fits into a 1.25" pipe, not 1.5") I also hooked up the turbine (without blades) to the inverter, and it appears to be working, though it was hard to keep the turbine spinning very fast that way, so I'm not sure. But if this turbine isn't good enough, I'll build or buy a better one, that's part of the fun. Didn't mention it before, but I do have a good car battery I'm not using, and I could include that in the setup... but would I also need a charge controller of some kind? Are those expensive? I'm not real worried about the power company at the moment since this is so small, and I acted if good faith to get approval. I doubt they would give As I said the inverter has "island protection" that will turn itself off if the grid goes down, so linemen shouldn't be at any risk. [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#31) by nathanca on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 11:22:19 AM MST

Sorry, that sentence "I doubt they would give..." was meant to say "I doubt they would give me approval in writing." [ Parent ]

Re: Chispito 200 Watt Grid Tie Inverter (3.00 / 0) (#33) by jonas302 on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 05:38:49 PM MST

Glad your not getting discouraged get that windmill up and hook it up to your car battery scout around for some more batterys You can probly use most of your power in 12volt depending what you have for appliances you can run cordless phones,led lighting,tv boxes probly many others you could check wooferhounds files thats how he does his Hang in there even if that inverter doesn't work out toss it back on ebay get on for 30 buck and plug your tv or something into it Most of all enjoy your new hobby [ Parent ]

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