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Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand
By DamonHD, Section Diaries Posted on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 03:59:24 PM MST
Comments on my draft documents welcome!

Hi,
I'm scheduled to give a short talk here about dynamic demand (aka "smart" or "grid-sensitive" domestic appliances):
http://www.cibse.org/index.cfm?go=events.view&item=3609
I'm working on my presentation now, and will be continuing to tinker over the next few days, and you can get at my draft document in ODF format and a periodic .ppt copy
I'll be speaking to a meeting of real engineers, often with the right letters after their names and the correct flesh wounds from working on site, so I'm going to be on my best behaviour!
I want to get the final presentation down to at most 4 or 5 slides, and make the notes useful in their own right, so suggestions/comments please (other than "wash more often", though that's not a bad idea...).
Rgds
Damon

Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand | 34 comments (34 topical)

Re: talk next week on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by dnix71 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 10:48:34 AM MST

I didn't know that SA had rolling blackouts. The media in the US ignores the rest of the world. What happened, no rain-loss of Hydro?

Higher efficiency standards are the best solution. If autos and appliances by law had to be energy misers, then everyone wins. If some people don't like that, tough, there just isn't enough to go around unless everyone uses less.

Re: talk next week on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by wdyasq on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 11:16:25 AM MST

I want the higher efficiency as a choice I can make, not a mandate for everyone.

You may want the government controlling every aspect of your life. I'm still looking for one thing they have done right.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen
[ Parent ]

Re: talk next week on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by DamonHD on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 12:45:37 PM MST

Well, so far the European Commission is on your side rather than mine!

But more seriously, the issue of allowing my neighbour to 'choose' a path that may ruin both of us is why we may need regulation, just like building and fire and wiring regs...

Anyway, the talk is about the technology rather then if it should be enforced.

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: talk next week on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by dnix71 on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 11:24:49 AM MST

We have "CAFE" in the US "corporate fuel economy average" for motor vehicles. Even with that we get into repeated trouble if the price of oil goes up suddenly. Most of peak demand electricity is produced from burning oil and natural gas.

It's a matter of national security and personal survival.

There are minimum standards for energy efficiency for many household appliances. Refrigeration, lighting, space heating and cooling, clothes washers and dryers. The power company can also MAKE you install power factor correction equipment if you are a large enough business and want to connect to the grid.

We share resources because the world is too crowded to do otherwise. The rich can always thumb their nose at the poor (like Al Gore living in a mansion and using a private jet), but the rest of us need to learn to share.

[ Parent ]

Re: talk next week on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by DamonHD on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 12:50:34 PM MST

SA allowed it's safety margin to get too low (<8% when >15% is generally considered good) and there were rolling blackouts for months.

Google for 'Eskom' (the name of the SA electricity company) and 'power cut' and you'll find plenty of background.

Eskom was starved of funds for years by the government, and supplied with poor fuel as the side-effects of political concessions, then then, well, the lights started going out.

Huge price rises planned, and many of the features that I mention in my presentation.

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

re: (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Jon Miller on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 02:08:42 PM MST

Hi Damon,

Have you got any numbers to put to the ideas, savings, cost to implement, running costs etc?

Also is this an internet based system or a signal down the electrical connection system?

I think if there are any electrical engineers in the room, they might bring up the possibility of harmonic issues caused by any such signal.

Apart from that, at the moment, the presentation should be a worthwhile exercise.

p.s. my girlfriend puts on the tumble dryer in the early evening, she dosnt understand or chooses not to understand why its a problem.

Regards
Jon M

www.otherpower.co.uk "I am certainly not a perfectionist, the thing is to know where you can take short c

Re: re: (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by DamonHD on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 02:36:20 AM MST

Hi,

There are numbers in the Web page that backs the presentation and in its references: http://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-dynamic-demand-value.html

But my experience of being on the wrong end of number-drenched PowerPoint poisoning is that your audience will be asleep before the first decimal point!

But to cut to your main point, I'll make it clear that ordinary appliances will achieve this by listening to the mains frequency (it drops when the grid is overloaded). Well spotted! Thanks!

Laptops and PCs without that mains-frequency-sensing hardware might instead listen to a Web site that does it for them...

Rgds

Damon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: re: (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by Jon Miller on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 12:14:22 PM MST

Damon,

If it where me, not that it is. I would expect to see some numbers even in a short presentation. Hopefully the engineers have chosen to be there so they are more likely to not switch off.

Are there any harmonic issues with the sensing as these can be generated from switch mode power supplies that are turning up more and more?

Frequency can also drop due to poor power factor not that its such an issue for domestic loads.

I am glad someone is bringing up this idea to more people who might do something about it.

Have you considered getting any work published in say ReNew?

Carry on the good work, still green eyed with you PV array.

Jon M

www.otherpower.co.uk "I am certainly not a perfectionist, the thing is to know where you can take short c
[ Parent ]

Re: re: (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by DamonHD on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 01:41:15 PM MST

Hi,

I don't believe that sensing should interact badly with non-linear loads if done carefully, especially if the DD loads are switched in a suitably benign way, eg at the zero crossings.

Frequency would not be affected by power factor (it's not a local feature but of the entire synchronous grid), though voltage and current are distorted by it. Or maybe I've misunderstood you again?

Rgds

Damon

PS. I know nothing about ReNew? URL?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: re: (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by Jon Miller on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 03:05:13 PM MST

Damon,

There is some shadowing issues with no linear loads, these can cause an apparent frequency change to less sophisticated equipment. I agree with you, it needs to be down carefully.

The renew magazine can be found here http://www.ata.org.au/publications/renew

Worth a read. please check your email :)

Jon M

www.otherpower.co.uk "I am certainly not a perfectionist, the thing is to know where you can take short c
[ Parent ]

Re: re: (3.00 / 0) (#30)
by DamonHD on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 04:09:34 PM MST

Thanks!

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by scottsAI on Sat Jan 24, 2009 at 10:46:03 PM MST

Damon,

Customers respond to lower cost, saving time. (many forms of these)

As a design engineer I can tell you:
Engineers respond to the same things just different ways.
Easier to design appliance, reducing cost of appliance. Or adding a feature to appliance allowing it to sell for more dollars. This feature must end up saving the customer time or money.

"Seems that it should be done and would save energy and money"

Not sure where saving energy is stated, read it twice?
Talked about delaying energy use... (not saving energy)
Without time of service billing, this will not save customers money, thus no perceived benefit to end user. Reducing stress on grid is not a concern to end user unless it becomes a savings to them in some way? (What is that way?)

Off grid homes, the appliance talking to home and deciding when there is enough energy could be of some benefit.

"Seems that it should be done"

I would leave that out, very week, non logical, does not speak to an engineer.
Lots of bad things have been done because Seems that it should be done. Most of the environmental laws fit that category.

Passing more laws does not make better people, just a totalitarian government. Taxing things so alternatives are cheaper will make better people by giving the people a better choice.

Good luck!
Scott Beversdorf P.E. (right letters?)

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by DamonHD on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 02:46:18 AM MST

Hi,

One way in which DD saves money is by reducing infrastructure costs, eg the system can be sized for lower peak loads, and less (inefficient/expensive) spinning reserve needs to be kept around and running. I'll make that clear, thank you!

This then shows up in reduced electricity bills because the transmission and balancing savings can be passed on.

I agree with the spirit of taxing/charging more for wasteful or undesirable things to nudge people in the right direction. Thus tariffs could be introduced that charge more for power used when the grid is under strain (or CO2 intensity of generation is way over average for example). I'm only in favour of banning profoundly antisocial behaviour which harms others. I'm not in favour of bans on recreational drugs for example for a whole slew of reasons.

DD would help a consumer automatically avoid such penalty rates without having to run round flipping switches, etc, and would in extremis keep the lights on.

If we'd had DD widespread in the UK last May, the lights probably would have stayed on for the 500,000 people bumped off the grid to stop it from collapsing.

The other way that DD saves money is by allowing more renewables into the grid, which don't have a fuel cost, but are intermittent. This saves money directly, and in possible flood and climate defence costs later.

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by scottsAI on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 12:23:04 PM MST

Damon,

Sounds good, tangible benefits to consumer and engineers. Lets see your updated PPT.

Maybe should address DD actual cost adder and will it use any additional power? Calling it a low cost feature leaves actual numbers open to interpretation. 50 cents 5 dollars? What does it cost? Many appliances have a micro, what is added to make it DD vs something not DD?
Be specific.

"wrong end of number-drenched PowerPoint poisoning"
Engineers must have numbers to back things up, put them in. If concerned put in appendix, with creditable references. Save the engineers the time looking it up, will make them more likely to follow up on it. (remember saving time is big...)

I am getting to not like energy star willingness to supply 3-4 watts when turned off. If everything draws 3-4 watts were talking 100 watts in my house doing nothing! 24 * 365 * 100 = 876,000 whr/yr or one month electrical bill!

Strongly against investing in Grid infrastructure. With new advances read about in Solar, within next 5 to 10 years, expect the grid only to be of local interest to business/manufacturing.
Referring to $1/w solar panels currently in production. New coatings making use of full visible light spectrum converting it to one optional frequency for the solar panel doubling to tripling solar panels output. Power storage in the grid will be the only interest to home owners, they can supply business power during the day, business supplies power at night as payback.

Have fun,
Scott Beversdorf.

[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by DamonHD on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 01:04:54 PM MST

Hi,

The numbers that I have are in my referred-to document (and some are in the notes).

The National Grid estimates that the savings from DD would amount to about £5/customer/year (domestic users).

I estimate that the additional components for DD would cost at most £1 at the factory gate and thus less than £5 at retail per appliance/gadget. Probably much less for something already with a microprocessor, and power consumption could be tiny (microWatts?), and zero when the appliance is off, but that depends on how it has to implement any DD actions.

Anyway, if my guess is right then it implies that as long as on average households don't replace more than one (DD) appliance per year they should be ahead.

I do agree that the numbers (in the Web document) should be tightened up, but I did the best that I could with the information that I had, and even had (for example) National Grid dig out numbers not otherwise readily available! I may have contributed very slightly to the sum total of human knowledge... B^>

This was all just an interested member of the public: no external money, help, status, etc!

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by scottsAI on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 07:32:27 PM MST

Damon,

OK, read the web about DD and how it works. Simpler than I expected.
Design looks like 60 cents or less for a device without a micro, 20 to 25 cents with micro.
(Assumption: has electronic control already etc.)

With that said anything that uses enough power to consider using it, will have a micro for controlling it today. (At least quickly can't think of one)

With the micro were talking a voltage divider and 1 pin of the micro to measure line frequency. Requires a rather stable frequency source, many appliances use the power line for this. Two more pins for the frequency source. 100ppm accurate crystal gives absolute measurement to 50 +-0.1Hz, cost 15-20 cents in millions. 100ppm crystal requires tweaking to get measurement accurate to 0.01Hz. Better crystals can be had for a price. Just what accuracy is needed? (from the webs meter looks like 0.1Hz may be fine.)

Have fun,
Scott Beversdorf.

[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by DamonHD on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 12:15:05 AM MST

Hi,

On the train right now so can't check,but my sample of UK gtrid frequency every minute for a whole year suggested (IIRC) that DD should definitely be cutting in by about a 0.1Hz drop (with a gradual/stochastic response if possible), so an internal frequency source only has to be a little more stable and accurate than that.

The sort of relatively dumb devices that might not currently be uP-controlled but could be targetted by DD include electric kettles (ie to boil water for tea) and coffee-makers and electric hobs. The former are marginal, but often the cause of demand pickups.

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by DamonHD on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 01:12:41 AM MST

Hi,

My data sample was for a month rather than a year: http://www.earth.org.uk/grid-demand-curves/UK/NationalGridFrequencyData200808-60s.xls

-0.1Hz drop, which is half of the normal operation target and one fifth of the legal limit, does seem to be a reasonably good place to cut in with DD measures and would result in DD activity ~3% of the time at the moment. A -0.05Hz threshold would result in DD activation ~17% of the time.

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by scottsAI on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 11:39:15 AM MST

Damon,

The device must have a standard to compare line frequency. The ability to accurately measure the line frequency is totally dependent on this frequency standard.

If the actual frequency is 49.9 and the device thinks it 50.000 Hz then your goals may not be achieved.

100ppm crystal Error
Math: (100ppm = 100 / 1,000,000 ) * 50Hz = 0.005Hz error is plus or minus or within 0.01Hz range
Microprocessor using 100ppm crystal standard can measure 50Hz to within 49.995 to 50.005Hz of actual frequency. 200ppm crystal could be used, couple cents cheaper. About the limit of what you can use. Smallest unit you want to measure is 0.1Hz, then the standard must be 10x better as a general rule (dictated by your needs).

Cheaper frequency standards: resonators and RC are NOT accurate enough. 1000ppm = 0.1Hz range, is better than they can deliver, you need better than that. They are much cheaper.

For off grid appliances may want an override button, their power source frequency may not be accurate enough to let it operate!!

Have fun,
Scott Beversdorf.

[ Parent ]

Re: Review on "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by DamonHD on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 01:47:09 PM MST

Agreed that we need to measure to (much) better than 0.1Hz if we want to react reliably to that degree of movement. Agreed also that some sort of override (eg an 'urgent' button on a washing machine) would be a good thing for many reasons.

Two factors mitigate however:

A bit of manufacturing (centre-point) and thermal-drift spread is probably a good thing as that helps avoid all units reacting exactly at the same time which might be a source of instability.
A graduated response to frequency drop rather than binary is good for system (grid) stability too, which again slightly blunts the absolute accuracy required.

So, without doing your sums again, I have been assuming that 'cheap crystal' rather than RC oscillator is the right sort of ball park.

Thanks for your analysis!

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by stop4stuff on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 02:54:47 AM MST

oooh thanks Damon, just right for a dark, wet, Sunday morning... time for researching!
Found a couple of useful tool that link into your topic...
National Grid realtime demand
Dynamic Demand org's frequency meter
And some stuff as to why Dynamic Demand might be good, which all boils down to...

Let's have smart capacitors instead of dumb flywheels.

Yes, a country wide implimentation of smart devices could save fuel & money, however until the number of smart devices reach a sufficient quantity to guanrantee the soak/relief of grid demand surges, there will still have to be spare free spinning generators waiting to add to the supply, tho the number of the those could be reduced in line with the number of smart devices in use... so i suppose the technology could be introduced over time without any detriment to infrastructure or consumers.

Will the consumer end up saving money?
In the long term, yes (although in all probability the money saving would get soaked up by inflation & fuel cost increases)

& I'm still watching the graph & meter...
Sunday 09:40
Uk Demand: 38000MW - Hz: 49.92
a few seconds later...
Uk Demand: 38000MW - Hz: 50.09

from the leap in Hz, it can be deduced that more generating power has come online ready to cope with an upcoming demand surge (i'm guessing around 10am)... Dynamic Demand with smart devices would easily allow generators to be spun up later (nearer the expected demand surge), saving fuel (& possibly consumers money)

Good luck with your presentation Damon

Re: (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by DamonHD on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 03:59:27 AM MST

Yep, this stuff can indeed be introduced gradually with benefit accruing from the moment the first one is installed!

Rgds

Damon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by wooferhound on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 09:08:46 AM MST

If the power companies are screwing around with the frequency, doesn't it mess up the time on the common plug in Clock ?

W o o f -={(

Re: Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by Norm on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 10:16:53 AM MST

So then you have to buy a smart clock?.....
oh....will it ever end? LOL !
( :>) Norm
[ Parent ]

Re: Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by dnix71 on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 11:14:40 AM MST

In the US they are supposed to make up the 'lost' cycles when the frequency slips, otherwise common wall clocks will fail to keep time. Those kind of clocks are becoming rare, though. Battery clocks are cheap and a "AA" battery will last a year.

Using frequency for DD in the US might cause trouble. Our grid is Balkanized because it's so spread out, but trading power between grid islands is only possible if the phases match at the transfer point. That might cause an oscillation on the grid as appliances went on and off as power transfers where being attempted.

Using smart boxes controlled by the power company (the current practice) allows the power company to have better control over demand when they need it most.

[ Parent ]

Re: Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by DamonHD on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 01:10:44 PM MST

Hi,

Quite right about the frequency issue, and the National Grid here in the UK has a legal duty to undo any frequency slips/gains over the course of a day, but as fewer things depend on counting mains cycles, that rule might reasonably get bent/modified in future.

As to large grids: I think that keeping them synchronous is hard and interconnecting asynchronous islands via HVDC seems like the thing to do.

DD doesn't necessarily help at all with things like transmission constraints in a synchronous system, ie where there's enough generation in the system, but one or more bottlenecks in shipping the power around.

Again, decoupling with HVDC transmission or back-to-back substations can eliminate that issue.

Rgds

Damon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand (3.00 / 0) (#31)
by dnix71 on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 05:48:45 PM MST

I don't know if they bother with keeping the grid here synced. But there has to be some at the boundaries. In Florida we have three different large power companies and some coops. We also buy about 1/4 of our power from out of state.

Alabama, Georgia and Tennessee don't mind taking our money. The people that live here have a bad attitude toward anything that looks like work. They want the power but thumb their noses at substations and power plants. If Turkey Point failed, things wouldn't be normal for years. One of these days we are going to find out the hard way just how long you can run a nuke until it just plain wears out.

[ Parent ]

Re: Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by frackers on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 08:26:22 PM MST

Not quite sure where my last post went! Something to do with the quotes in the title maybe?

DD sounds a bit like Ripple Control as we use here in NZ but in our case its applied by the generators/distributors to even out the load. Pricing makes it of benefit to the users however. The signalling is over the power lines - the following document makes a very good read.

http://www.oriongroup.co.nz/downloads/RippleSignalGuide.pdf

Several channels are available so quite fine control can be applied to different users/businesses. Seems to work well here!!
Robin - Down Under (or are you Up Over)

Re: Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by DamonHD on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 12:17:07 AM MST

Hi,

Indeed ripple control is a very similar concept in many ways, but centrally controlled and for shifting load peaks by hours rather than seconds on the whole!

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Givingtalk "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by ghurd on Sun Jan 25, 2009 at 09:03:36 PM MST

I think people respond when you head straight for their wallet.

Not sure how much logic they put into it.

A 15MPG 4X4 SUV leased for $700/month was no problem at all.
BUT
When gas doubled they ran out and bought a Prius?
Why? To save $100/month on fuel?
They could lease a Caddy and buy fuel for less than some SUV leases.

If the $100/month cuts into the quality of life, they should not have leased a $700/month SUV in the first place.

Might try relating it to an 'X' jump in petrol prices?
"The average person would save enough money by changing to CFLs and DD to compensate for a 'Y' jump in petrol price"?
or
"The fuel savings is enough to reduce petrol prices by 'Z'."

Forced DD does not bother me.
Same as the change to digital broadcast TV in the USA.
We have been using antique TV technology because nobody would rattle the system.

We (US) are already forced into some stupid TV things, like CC TVs.
Seems it is not fair for a deaf person to buy a TV and a CC decoder box, so we all have to pay extra to buy TVs with CC decoders built-in.

Did I rant again?
G-
Ghurd.info

Re: Givingtalk "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by DamonHD on Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 01:07:35 AM MST

Forced DD can by and large be unobtrusive except in situations where the grid would have failed and the lights gone out...

Rgds

Damon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8376286.stm
[ Parent ]

Re: Givingtalk "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#32)
by BigBreaker on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 07:56:15 AM MST

I'm not deaf and I sometimes find CC useful for heavily accented "foreign" films from the UK and Australia. It is also useful in offices, airports and gyms where they have TVs playing but muted. The CC lets you follow along with the news. I wouldn't be surprised if the emergency broadcast system was interested in having TVs able to display simple text as well.

Some people would think amending zoning rules to allow a huge, noisy wind turbine as a bigger accommodation to a "minority" than mandated CC in every TV.

Slightly off topic, but some countries, particularly in Asia, make little effort to make buildings and infrastructure handicap accessible. You almost never see a disabled person except the occasional beggar. It is an amazing cruelty for a very civil set of societies.

[ Parent ]

Re: Givingtalk "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#33)
by ghurd on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 09:06:16 AM MST

The point was they mandate all kinds of crazy things with very little benefit to the vast majority of the US population.

We bought a 13" TV ($99 on sale for $89), and wanted another a couple months later. The cheapest was $130. So I ask "Why?". They informed me the new TVs had to have CC.
That was a 30% jump. And nobody but me noticed. I noticed only because of the timing.

Mandating DD that costs a $1 and benefits everyone would never be noticed by 99% of the population.
The people who complain will stop when they find out it will save them money. Aim for their wallet!
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Givingtalk "Dynamic Demand" (3.00 / 0) (#34)
by BigBreaker on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 03:16:40 PM MST

I'm all for it. The grid needs to get smarter.

My parents have a smart meter and their high current appliances are on separate circuits. The circuits are switchable from the meter box by the electric co. At a minimum it keeps them all from switching on simultaneously. That capability multiplied across the grid gives the electric company very valuable time to deal with short peaks.

[ Parent ]

Giving a talk next week on Dynamic Demand | 34 comments (34 topical)

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