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Biodiesel for boat engine


By la7qz, Section Mechanical
Posted on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 11:53:17 PM MST
Yanmar 3GM30F

Hi

Our sailboat has a Yanmar 3GM30F three cylinder diesel engine. Since we have solar panels and a wind turbine, the only thing we really use the engine for when we're not actually cruising is heating the hot water tank for the shower.

There is someone here on the island who supplies biodiesel. Apparently, he collects used oil from Kentucky Fried Chicken and others and cleans it and then sells at the same price as regular diesel.

Does anyone know whether my engine can run off 100% biodiesel without modification? 50%? Not at all? What, if any are the limitations? Can I collect oil myself and clean it? The engine is from 1992 and does not have a turbo.

I should mention we're in a tropical climate.

Owen, Donna and Sparky (the Hyper Spaniel)
Yacht Magic
St Maarten

Biodiesel for boat engine | 10 comments (10 topical)

Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by dnix71 on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 04:58:59 PM MST

I wouldn't use it if it is the same price as regular deisel. What's the point? You might void a warranty by using straight veg oil and it just can't be as good a the commercial product.



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by getterdone on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 05:34:04 PM MST

i would run straight veggy oil. do some research on the net. it will be worth your while if you can find a used veggy oil supply.
filtered down to 10 micron's., it makes a fine fuel.
i use it straight to power my generator , also my dodge truck.
google [fattywagon]. its a place to start.
bio diesel is not the way to go in my book. yes it will run just fine, but why buy a unknown quality fuel at the same price as diesel? stick with diesel., or do the conversion to use straight veggy oil. the engine makes enough heat to run it, it's not hard to convert., and will save you a lot of money if you run your engine much..........and beside's the satisfaction is wonderful.
If I were smart I'd be dangerous


Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by behoof on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 06:04:16 PM MST

Owen,

I make my own biodiesel by collecting and processing it myself. As of today my cost per gallon not including labor (of course) is approximately $0.85 / gal.

I'm not saying that fellow is ripping you off but that does seem a bit unusual to charge so much.

Just for giggles you might ask him if, "he's current on all his Federal or local tax documents as a fuel producer?"  LOL

Anyway your Yanmar should run just fine on quality bio (this is not a recomendation, check with Yanmar) all of my diesel vehicles and all except my really old tractors do too.

Best to you and like someone just posted, read up a bit on it, lots of info out there.

behoof



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by bobfandango on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 06:09:22 PM MST

There are other benefits to biodiesel aside from cost.  They are, of course, much harder to put a dollar figure on.  I don't know what diesel costs you there, but here it is still more expensive than regular diesel due to the price of oil going through the floor.  When oil was at 150, biodiesel was actually cheaper here.  

Anyhow, the benefits.  First off, biodiesel is much closer to being carbon neutral.  The carbon in the fuel came from our atmosphere and was fixed by the plants that made the oil.  That carbon will go back into the atmosphere of course.  But since it was fixed such a short time ago, its a wash.  This is very different from liberating additional new carbon from petroleum.  Of course too, the re-use of the veggie oil is a nice benefit.  Also, the economy is stimulated locally instead of remotely (i.e. you are putting your dollars into the hands of someone who will likely spend them in your area rather than shipping the money to the Mid East or Argentina or wherever the crude came from to make your regular diesel.

On a more practical side, biodiesel will keep your engine a lot cleaner. This is true for at least two reasons.  First, it actually acts sort of like a detergent to dissolve crud.  It does this better than the additives that go into regular diesel.  Secondly, it burns much more cleanly. For example, there is virutally no sulphur in biodiesel and particulate emissions are lower.  The scrubbing effect can, however, be a double edged sword initially.  Moving staight to B-100, pure biodiesel, right out of the gate can and sometimes does scrub your engine so effectively that it leads to clogged fuel and/or oil filters.  Once the engine and fuel system is clean, they will actually clog up less frequently than they otherwise would.  But, it is something to keep in mind initially.

The second consideration for biodiesel you won't have to worry about at all.  That is, biodiesel will gel (i.e. stop flowing) at a much warmer temperature than regular diesel.  In areas where it is consistenly cold (i.e. below freezing), you have to be careful to mix bio with regular to keep that from happening.  But in the tropics, that won't be one of your issues.

Otherwise, if you can verify the quality of the biodiesel (e.g. do lots of other folks use it in a variety of engines without issue?), you won't have any problems at all using it in that engine.  BTW, I'm assuming there is no existing warranty in place. That doesn't change the benefits (and relatively few downsides) of using biodiesel.  But it would suck to have some weasel get out of fixing your engine that breaks for a reason having nothing whatsoever to do with biodiesel.



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by bobfandango on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 06:14:41 PM MST

Dang, forgot to mention one other thing to check.  If the boat uses copper fuel lines, you may want to do some more research.  One of the frequently cited reasons that biodiesel has not made inroads into home heating is that it has been known to attack the copper tubing and the copper has been known to polymerize the diesel (i.e. create solid precipitates from the diesel).  I don't know enough about this scenario to speak to that.  But if your boat uses copper lines, do some extra research before switching.



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 06:55:43 PM MST

For a lightly-used boat engine I wouldn't touch biodisel with a ten foot pole, even if it were free.

The amount of fuel used by this engine is very small, given its limited operational cycle.  But one use you didn't mention is emergency propulsion - like when you're being blown onto the rocks and can't tack back upwind.

With no money to be saved and a vessel and lives to be lost if it causes the engine to fail to start in an emergency it's a bad move to use it.



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by brokengun on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 10:00:30 PM MST

If you do end up going for full fledged vegetable oil, be really careful that you make sure the oil is up to temperature before shooting it into your engine. If it's too viscous or has junk in it, your fuel injectors will clog and you'll be as they say "S.O.L."

Be careful!



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by bob g on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 11:58:39 PM MST

biodiesel and veggie oils are also hard on oem rubber fuel lines, you might have some of the turn to mush.

straight veggie also can cause stuck piston rings, the glycerin doesn't fully combust in a partly loaded engine and ends up caking up the rings till you have enough blowby to burn the top ring and then you are set for an overhaul.

the only way i would use straight veggie is in a properly loaded engine, then i would start on diesel till warmed up, switch to veggie for the run, and then shut down on diesel.

your little engine is likely an indirect injection engine, which is a plus
idi engines tolerate alternate fuels better than di engines.

i think you better research this out well before you switch over, otherwise you might very well have some expensive repairs, or be left stranded out at sea?

bob g



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Bruce S on Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 08:18:15 AM MST

I'll add a few items here that BFB listed.
Furstly, I own an '83 MB 5cyl 300D Turbored, and I have been working with 3 forms of fuel for the better part of last year. I make my own Bio-D the very way they do it on Journey-to-Forever, I like knowing the quality of the fuel. I have also tried and still testing the blend.
One of the other items that Bio-D has that normal Diesel is moving away from and causing problems for "older" engines...low sulfur content. This lower content is a problem for the older engines, mine started smoking. Bio-D helps lower the smoking problems due to it's higher lubrosity<-sp?

As others have said the Bio-D will clean out your lines, your fuel tank and injectors when you first start to use it, so have plenty of fuel filter handy :-)
The price he's asking may be do to the paid fuel taxes, maybe not. Ask for quality check cert. Best places will have something similar to what Europe has, Germany and France I believe has the hardest testing.

There is also a quick way to tell if the Bio-D he's selling has been done completely and with quality.
Take a small amount, say 500mL, add about 70mL of plain tap water. Give it good shake, water should settle to bottom in about 1/2 hour, if it seems to have little bubbles suspended in the fuel , then washing was not done completely and you'll have nasty sludge problems that will infect your fuel tank, which then would cost you more to steam clean out.
I would say to talk with the seller, ask way so expensive, if seems reasonable, probably due to higher cost of Methanol. Large tanks here have risen 5x original.

Then if you do go with Bio-D begin by adding to Dino-D 1/4th mix, this I still do even with temps around TDC <-Two D(*&^ COLD!!

Hope this helps
Bruce S



Re: Biodiesel for boat engine (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Danthecook on Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 11:14:52 AM MST

Biodiesel maybe usable but reusing vegetable oil may cause so strange problems.  Glycerin is often added to edible oils and unless it is processed out in some way it will turn to a soap like substance in the crankcase.  I have a very old diesel engine in my VW golf and it will run on pure oil without many more changes then a few fuel lines. By pure oil I mean direct from the farmer rapeseed oil.  If I use food grade oi, I would need to process the glycerine out before use or change my oil a lot more often then normal.  Apparently there are some elaborate heavy pre heaters that will eliminate this problem in some diesel engines, better look them up.  
Danthecook


Biodiesel for boat engine | 10 comments (10 topical)
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