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PM Alternator Battery Load


By blowhard09, Section Newbies
Posted on Sun Oct 18, 2009 at 10:34:59 AM MST
A question about battery charging.

Hello,

  Since being an newcomer to the windpower scene, I've learned nothing is cut and dried, it's trial and error and testing. I've built a windmill in the spring, but haven't been able to make enough volts to keep my batteries charged. So far, I've been using my small charger to keep my batteries charged up. I started with 38VDC ametek motor, but even in strong winds, didn't produce enough voltage(11-12volts max) to charge the batteries. I now have a 500watt PM Alternator with a 5'rotor with 3 blades. This Alternator can produce some serious power when not hooked up to my batteries, but when I hookup to positive terminal and under load, the most it can put out is 5-6 volts no matter if the wind speed is 10mph or 40mph. I'm going to upgrade to larger blades which I think will help out with start-up in lower winds. I'm hoping it will help produce more voltage than 5 or 6 volts. I just need my rotor to spin faster, than I know it will make more volts. I don't know if this a common problem other people have had. So, my question is, what can I do to charge my batteries with this PM Alternator? If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks.

Joe

PM Alternator Battery Load | 7 comments (7 topical)

Re: PM Alternator Battery Load (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by ghurd on Sun Oct 18, 2009 at 11:29:09 AM MST

Read more.  Test less until more reading is done.
You are having issues understanding voltage and power.

If an Ametek 38 did not produce charging voltage in strong winds, something was very wrong with the blades.

"when I hookup to positive terminal and under load, the most it can put out is 5-6 volts no matter if the wind speed is 10mph or 40mph" is an improper load (obviously not a battery).

Why worry about starting in lower wind if high winds will not reach charging voltage?
Larger blades spin slower, which will make the perceived problem worse.
And who knows if there is really a problem?  Not any relevant info to base anything on.
G-

Ghurd.info



Re: PM Alternator Battery Load (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by tanner0441 on Sun Oct 18, 2009 at 11:42:08 AM MST

Hi

It may be a daft question but when you connect the PMA to the battery I assume you have some form of rectifier, not just connecting the PMA direct. Also where are you measuring the voltage?  Is it the raw AC or the DC because if it is the DC across the battery the reading will be dictated by the battery voltage.

You don't mention the blade type or size on the Ametek.  Have you run it up on a drill or something similar to see at what speed it produces what voltage.  What state are your batteries in.  So many other questions.

Perhaps a photograph or sketch of what you are doing might help.

Brian



Re: PM Alternator Battery Load (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by blowhard09 on Fri Oct 23, 2009 at 03:19:44 PM MST

Hi,

First, let me say thanks for responding back to my posting. Sorry it took me this long to respond back to you as I have been working a lot this week. I know my PM alternator question was pretty broad and general, so let me give you some details. As I stated before, I started this windmill project in the spring and it's been flying since June. My first motor was a 38VDC Ametek with a 3 blade rotor. I'm using 28 inch, aluminum hyper-spin blades, I ordered from Ebay. They spun fast and true mounted on the Ametek. The intent of this wind generator was to power my shed lights and some outlets. I have it mounted at the back wall of my shed. I'm using a #10awg power cord for a 25foot run going from my ametek motor, down my tower and into the back wall of my shed to my batteries. My batteries are 4 new 105/amp hr. deep-cycle batteries. I thought the larger capacity batteries would be appropriate. I'm also using a charge controller with a 40-amp relay and 3 heavy-duty, 200watt resistors for a dump load. The ametek motor never put out enough voltage to charge my batteries, even in steady 20 to 30mph winds. The most volts made was about 12-13 volts. I became very dissatified with this, so I purchased the 500watt PM Alternator, I am now using. This is a 3phase, AC motor capable of putting out a lot of voltage and it does just that when not under load. With this alternator, came a 3phase bridge rectifier, turning AC to DC voltage, which I am now using. It was pretty simple to hook-up, using the same 3-wire, #10 power cord. I thought this Alternator would definitely remedy my low voltage and battery charging problems, but it still doesn't. When hooked-up to my batteries and no matter what the wind speed is, the rotor still spins at a slow steady speed and produces no more than 5-6 volts. Now, I don't know if this is the way it's supposed to be and there really isn't a problem or is it, that something isn't wired right or I need to upgrade to heavier wiring. It has been suggested to me, to upgrade to larger blades, matching to my PMA and maybe better start-up in low winds. I really getting disgusted over this, since I've put a lot of time and money into this small windmill. I am new to this and I have done a lot of reading on the subject, so it peaked my interest to build a wind generator. They make it sound easy and cheap on the internet.
I will try to send you some photos of my set-up to give you a better idea. So, if you have any suggestions or ideas, I would greatly appreciate it. Again, thanks for responding back to me.

Joe

[ Parent ]



Re: PM Alternator Battery Load (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Hilltopgrange on Fri Oct 23, 2009 at 06:35:22 PM MST

You really need to give more detail to stand any chance of getting your problems sorted and to give others a chance of helping you!

What voltage are your batteries? how are they connected? have you checked the voltage of each battery and that of the connected bank?

You mention the turbine is on a tower, How high? is the turbine in the clear and getting good wind or is it on a 2 foot pole under a tree and beside?

How did you connect to the bridge rectifier?

What voltage do you get from the turbine with no rectifier or battery connected? (Dont try this in high winds)

What size of blades have you fitted? Longer blades turn slower!
The 500w pmg you mention do you have any details ie maker specs or a web link?

The guys here are great but they can only help you if they know the whole story.

Crystal balls only work on grid power! lol

Joking aside you need to give loads more detail, pictures would also help

Good luck with it, I am sure it will soon be sorted

Russell

[ Parent ]



Re: PM Alternator Battery Load (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by blowhard09 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:26:38 AM MST

Hi,

Thanks for answering my posting. I can give you more details and answers to your questions about my windmill situation. I'm using 4, 12-volt, deep-cycle batteries. They are wired in parallel, positive to positive and negative to negative. From there, the wiring goes to a AC power inverter. The batteries were bought brand new in the Spring and were fully charged at about 12.2 volts. I have been monitoring the voltages of each battery and that of the connected bank and they both check in at 12.2 volts at full charge. I have been keeping them charge up with a small battery charger. I feel there's no problem with the batteries.

My tower is only 17 ft. high and yes, I realize now that is too low. At the time, I thought that would good enough, but when the winds come from the East, it's not high enough as there are obstacles in the way. Winds from the West are totally clear and my rotor turns best from that primary direction.

The connection to the bridge rectifier was basically, pretty simple, as the connections are marked on the rectifier. My 3, #10 wires from my alternator hook up to the 3, hot terminals on the rectifier and the positive and negative terminals hook up to the battery bank. I have never check the voltages from the alternator without being connected to the rectifier or the battery.

The blades, I'm using right now, are 3, 28inch, aluminum, hyper-spin blades. They are the same ones I was using on my Ametek motor. I have received my 35inch, aluminum blades in the mail, but I'm undecided whether to put them on or not. They're supposed to start up faster in low winds. My PM alternator does not start up well in low winds.

I bought my alternator and blades online from WindyNation.com. I don't know the maker or specs of the motor.

I did take some photos of my windmill set-up and I have them in a file, but I'm not sure how to post them on this website. I will find out, though. Well, I hope this gives you a little, more details and answers some questions about my battery charging problem. Thanks for listening to me. Look forward to your response. I'll work on getting those pics for you.

Joe

[ Parent ]



Re: PM Alternator Battery Load (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by TomW on Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 01:13:03 PM MST

Joe;

Hate to tell you this but..

I would consider a 12 volt battery that was at 12.2 volts to be slightly discharged.

They really need to get up around 14 volts or higher to be truly charged.

Keeping them that low will not be good for them. You really need to push them to higher voltage.

Not sure that is what you wanted to hear but there it is.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it


[ Parent ]



Re: PM Alternator Battery Load (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by ghurd on Fri Oct 23, 2009 at 04:10:41 PM MST

How are you measuring these voltages?  There must be something wrong here.

On the alternator or generator side of the rectifiers, the voltage will never go more than about 1.4V (3-ph) or 0.7V (A-38) higher than the battery.

If connecting the battery reduces the measured voltage to 5-6V, I have no idea where you could get that reading in good wind.  
The only voltages to be measured are the battery voltage, and the generator side of the rectifier (battery V + 1.4V).

I have a feeling those Hyper-Spin blades would stall with a 500W PMA, but amps still flow into the battery during stall.

If the unloaded blades slow down when the battery is connected, then it is charging.
G-
Ghurd.info



PM Alternator Battery Load | 7 comments (7 topical)
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