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windmill, no batteries, immersion heat


By grg, Section Newbies
Posted on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 04:17:37 PM MST
Windmill to heat water?

Has anyone used windmill generated power to heat water without a battery bank? I'd like to know what combination of coil windings and element resistance would be useful. I live in a location that's often windy in winter and I'd like to harness that to take the chill off without the investment/maintenance of batteries. A tower in a treed location flying a 10 - 14 ft dual rotor mill would be my likely scenario.

Thanks, Greg

windmill, no batteries, immersion heat | 6 comments (6 topical)

Re: windmill, no batteries, immersion heat (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by willib on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 05:41:45 PM MST

not sure, but more people have heated water as a dump load.
And if you do not use a battery you risk burning out your heater elements
Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)


Re: windmill, no batteries, immersion heat (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by joestue on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 06:30:11 PM MST

Size your heating elements for the highest power you expect to get..goes without saying..

My advice, (because heating elements are dirt cheap) is build the turbine first.
Then configure a controller to progressively switch on more heating elements according to the turbine output voltage, this can be as complex as an microcontroler or 4 LM339 comparators, 32 resistors and 8 relays and 8 different heating elements, with 8 more relays and 2 comparators as a fail safe.

System voltage is up to you, but 48 volt heating elements are going to cost 10 times as much as 240 volt units unless someone has a good source.. Google is returning stuff that costs 5-10 cents a watt...

You could build your own as well but that's for another thread.



Re: windmill, no batteries, immersion heat (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Buckville on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:00:50 PM MST

You'll need a fairly complex electronic controller to do this -- it will have to switch heating elements on and off to match the incoming power from the rotor. If the alternator is loaded by too many heating coils, it will stall, or won't let the blades start up. You want no load on the turbine during periods of no wind, so it will start spinning. Too few, and you will overspeed. It's FAR easier to use a battery bank as a regulator and dump power to the heaters from there.
DAN F



Re: windmill, no batteries, immersion heat (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Flux on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 12:49:51 AM MST

As the others have said, it is perfectly possible but not as simple as you think.

If heat is the only thing you want I wouldn't advise using the battery and dump load approach, it is simple and easy to get working but the alternator efficiency is very low when clamped to a constant voltage battery and in high winds you will have more heat in the alternator windings than in your heater.

It can be done very efficiently without a battery but you won't get much in the way of results without a controller. At best a fixed compromise load will be slow to start up and won't work in low winds ( perhaps no big deal for heating). In high winds it won't fully load the prop and you will have a beast that makes a frightening noise and is difficult to control.

You probably only need 3 steps of control to make a practical system and if you are not desperately worried about the best efficiency you might do it in 2 steps.

The other way is to build a high frequency high voltage alternator and use series capacitors to feed the heaters but it's not very practical with normal low frequency lowish voltage alternators.

If you can justify batteries to supply some load but you still mostly want heat then go the dump load route but build an alternator that is way over size, it will stall and perform really badly with direct connection to the battery but you can add series resistance in the dc line from rectifier to battery. If you choose this right it will become a good battery charger and you can extract the heat from the series resistor and the dump load. The big snag is that you have very non standard resistors to deal with and sourcing them and cost may be a problem.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: windmill, no batteries, immersion heat (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by anteror on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 03:02:44 PM MST

Look this;

http://www.folkecenter.net/mediafiles/folkecenter/pdf/Small_Scale_Renewable_Energy_Control_Systems.p df

PWM.

Antero
Finland



Re: windmill, no batteries, immersion heat (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by grg on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 06:16:24 PM MST

This is the sort of feedback I was hoping for. I'm not opposed to a controller, even a complicated one, but can't see the advantage of regulating voltage with a battery bank. I'm also unsure how high a voltage is practical for an axial flux alternator? Higher voltage might make finding elements with the appropriate resistance easier to find.

Antero, that PDF is most interesting! Lot's to think about there.

I need to get with a big pot of tea and my thinking cap for a bit...

Cheers, Greg



windmill, no batteries, immersion heat | 6 comments (6 topical)
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