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output V/A as it relates to efficiency


By bob g, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 09:38:15 AM MST
curious as to what folks are generating...

particularly what voltages are folks generating at.

12, 24, 48, higher?

and for those doing the higher voltage machines, how does the efficiency work out compared to a lower voltage machine?  presumably folks start out with lower voltage generation and then move up.

the reason i am asking is that i have been working with automotive alternators for some years now, not as windgenerators but as engine driven units.
typically these average around 50% efficient, but

with some modification which allows them to run at higher voltages the efficiency improves quite markedly.

so i am curious
what the consensus is here in the windgen group, are the higher voltage machines generally more efficient at converting wind energy into electical watts?

bob g

output V/A as it relates to efficiency | 2 comments (2 topical)

Re: output V/A as it relates to efficiency (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by electronbaby on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:41:09 AM MST

Yes Bob, the higher you let the voltage go in a wind turbine, the lower you can allow the current to go, so to answer your question, the higher voltage alternators are always more efficient. This has to do mainly with the I^2R losses in the stator and feed line. You also can gain in inverter efficiency is the unit is to be grid tied without batteries. This way you dont have to deal with the battery losses, and also the inverters are more efficient as well.

The ultimate in efficiency would be to run PPT on the turbine side @ 300v and grid tie on the inverter end @ 240v.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF



Re: output V/A as it relates to efficiency (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 08:18:06 PM MST

Actually it's in the feedlines where the efficiency difference is.

To the first order the efficiency of the alternator (at a given power level and RPM and if matched to the load) doesn't depend on the voltage it's wound at:  Wind it with N turns of cross-section A and run it at 12 volts or 2*N turns of cross-section A/2 and run it at 24V and it gets the same current density and the same resistive losses.

(It's not QUITE dead-on:  You also get eddy-current losses and you'll get a TINY bit more with thicker wire.  But you can make it exactly the same by winding the half-as-many-twice-as-thick windings as two-in-hand of the thinner wire.)

On the other hand, when pushing a given amount of current down the feed wiring, cutting the voltage in half doubles the current.  Your resistive losses are the SQUARE of the current times the resistance, so doubling the current quadruples the losses with a given wire size - or requires you to use wire four times as thick to get the same amount of loss.  Copper is REALLY expensive (and insulation is cheap).  So if you're running high power you'd like to run high voltage to save on copper.

Same applies to the wiring within the "battery shack":  Bus bars, battery wire, switches, wires to the alternator, resistive losses in the batteries, fuses/fusible links, etc.  Also:  Currents over about 100A requires more expensive equipment and for fire safety requires wire thick enough that it's like wrestling anacondas.  So rule of thumb is to keep your load wiring down to 100ish amps - which means no more than about 1KW on a 12V system, 2 KW on a 24V, and use 48V for up to 4 KW.

You usually stop at 48V and use heavier wire for a system not TOO far over 4 KW because:
 - staying under 50V puts you in the "low voltage" part of the wiring code, which is easier,
 - things get a lot more hazardous to touch above about 50V, and
 - 48V is the highest voltage for common commodity equipment.

[ Parent ]



output V/A as it relates to efficiency | 2 comments (2 topical)
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