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Strange ECM
By ghurd, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 05:37:36 PM MST
This one is different

If anyone is scrounging ECMs, this one could get away. Maybe it should get away (I am undecided at this time).
I did not believe it was an ECM by the looks. A slow spin of the fan showed signs of light cogging.
It has a couple other unusual features in addition to the big square brain can.
The brain is more complex than normal.
Couple big ICs and a few small ICs, 2 fuses, a large bridge, and the under side is half covered in SMD parts.
The round can is the brain style I always found until now.

The motor wires go into the side of the motor can instead of the rear end cap.
There are 5 wires entering the motor.
The normal 3 (red, black, and blue) power wires. And 2 brown wires that went to the brain.
The board traces where the brown wires connect is heavy, like it was intended to carry some current instead of just a signal.
The motor itself does not have the same "individual" windings as my other ECMs.
It looks like regular motor windings. It will not be as simple to re-configure the coils. The coil wire is not as heavy. And they are 2 colors, normal and green.
It is a 1HP GE with an "LX..." part number. Best guess is that means Lennox. And I bought it from a Lennox dealer.
G-

Strange ECM | 13 comments (13 topical)

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by electronbaby on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 04:40:30 PM MST

Variable Frequency Drive.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by adaml on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 04:50:36 AM MST

Now that one would scare me!!

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by SparWeb on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 12:12:11 PM MST

Maybe it came out of one of these:

http://www.lennoxcommercial.com/products/overview.asp?product_id=2

Do you need a VFD motor? Why didn't the Lennox dealer tell you anything about it?
Steven Fahey

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by ghurd on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 01:00:10 PM MST

Just asked for old ECMs... Need more crap to tinker with!
No clue what it came out of, but I expect resident (115V) and the blower is 'normal sized'.

Nothing on the sticker suggests it is different than any other ECM.
"GE ECM 1HP 1-ph 60Hz... "
Only thing different on the sticker is "115V" instead of 120/240 or 208-230, but I don't really call that very different.

ECM is a VFD. I thought.
Program the parameters to whatever's important.
Some self-adjust power used and RPM to maintain a constant flow, depending on how dirty the filter is at the time. Amazing little critters.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by dnix71 on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 11:03:56 PM MST

Probably much more expensive to replace after a power surge takes out it's brain, too.

The US keeps tightening it's efficiency requirements for refrigeration and ac. Lennox probably had to go hi-tech to get their SEER's up.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=151442 This thread is an interesting read. Lennox advertised a(n up-to) 20.5 SEER for a 5-ton unit.

[ Parent ]

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by pmurf1 on Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 10:29:28 PM MST

Ghurd,
That's out of an older Lennox high efficiency a/h or furnace, probably 10 years old'ish. Pretty much all of the new Lennox stuff uses the regular GE ECM stuff from 1/2 to 1 HP. They are even using them in the 1/3 Hp variety on the outside condensor motors to up the SEER's. I took one off a junk 15 SEER Lennox package heat pump at work and I'm going install it on my 15 SEER York to up the efficiency and use less energy when I get some time. I have several brand new never run ones with brains in my garage that were going in the scrap pile for the recycler, couldn't stand to let them throw 6-800 motors away for no reason.

From the looks of it, it got wet. It was probably in a vertical application, like a furnace and the a/c condensate drain probably plugged and took it out. The rust in the motor and down the blower housing is usually a good clue. And knowing Lennox's idiot engineers, they probably didn't drill a drain hole in the bottom of the housing to drain it so the water just swirled around until the motor or brains fried. Carrier does the same thing on their package units, except the mount the brains about an inch above the bottom of the unit and when the pan overflows, it takes out the brain. Good for me since I do a 6-1400 dollar repair, but bad for the customer. From the looks of that motor and the capacitor mount strap just above the transformer, I would guess that had some sort of capacitor attached to the two brown wires. Universal blower wiring is usually brown is capacitor(s), red is low, blue is medium, black is high speed. Do the internals have the 18 magnets on the stator and three on the rotor?

Just in case anyone is considering buying a new high efficiency unit, the Lennox split systems are pretty nice and easier to work on than the Trane stuff, less stuff to go wrong. Trane has way better tech support though, and greater parts availability. I'd rather work on a 19 or 21 (rated) SEER Lennox over a Trane 19 anyday, but really haven't had to much yet, and we sell several million dollars worth of Lennox equipment each year where I work. Their package 15 SEER heat pumps are crap, I've seen a lot of stuff, but only time I've ever seen a used condom in a factory wrapped unit was from Lennox.

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by ghurd on Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 07:24:30 AM MST

"it got wet". Yup. Not deep, but wet. Can see the inside rust puddle in the coil photo.
The brain can is far from water proof. No signs of moisture.

My recollection is this one works (until I played with it?) and was being saved as a replacement.

Stator looks like a generic motor stator. Windings do too. Did not look very close, or look for magnets on the stator.
Rotor has the normal ECM looking 3 magnets.

Brown wires go to the internal transforner, big inductor, small brown cap, etc in the top left of the photo.
Seems related to the black, white, and green harness (left side near top). And that black wire went to the external transformer on the blower housing.
Seem mostly isolated from the major power circuits, and has its own fuse.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by pmurf1 on Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 09:03:26 PM MST

I'd bet you there's a star connection in that mess of insulation somewhere. Red,blue,and black are probably normal like other ecm's, find the other ends and you're probably in business. If you really screw it up, I have a spare stator from a normal 1hp you can have for shipping. This was the first one I screwed with isolating all the coils seperately and running the 36 wires out of the back of the bearing plate. I would think they would be interchangeable as far as lengths?
My two at my house are making decent power today, light 10-20 mph intermittant winds today which is good for Phoenix. Hopefully I can bank enough to run my surround sound stereo for a couple days:).

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by ghurd on Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 06:35:35 AM MST

I think this one is a hair longer. 1/4~1/2"?
Looked like a star connection bundled in the wrapping where I would expect it, but I didn't look all that close.
Did not cut into the wrapping (on "start cleaning the garage day"). Aim was mostly to free up space the blowers take up.
I have others. Thanks just the same. :)

Interesting to me.
One regular blower had a 1/6 HP motor. Good, I needed that for another 6 coil / 4 magnet PMA.
Why was 1/6HP enough 25 years ago but 1/2HP ECM is about the smallest, and 1HP is not overly rare? Shouldn't need 6X the power!
Even 1/3HP is double a 1/6HP.
G-

Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by TomW on Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 06:51:00 AM MST

Why was 1/6HP enough 25 years ago but 1/2HP ECM is about the smallest, and 1HP is not overly rare? Shouldn't need 6X the power!

My Lord, man. You must live in a cave?

Exhibit A:

Homes are much larger than they used to be.

Exhibit B:

Bigger is always better.

As an aside:

My plumber told me we "needed" an 80 gallon electric water heater for better efficiency. We intend to buy a pair of 10 gallons plumbed in series to replace the current 30 gallon because it is just 2 of us and we can both shower off 10 gallons of hot water quite easily. I figure the first can sit un powered as a tempering tank or be fired up if we have company and need more lavish hot water supplies. We do laundry in cold water and the dishes are done by hand with warm water so why would I need an 80 gallon vat of hot water sitting about?

Just an example of how the unknowing are herded into "more" by those who should know better.

Just from here.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by ghurd on Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 07:25:13 AM MST

And all those big tract houses need 3/4 acre lots for more grass to cut, and more space to spread pesticides the big box stores say we need.

A good thing about ECMs is if it only needs 1/10HP, then it only uses 1/10HP.
Only data I can find about my mini-ECM (Arktic-59) is less than 1 year payback, and the little bugger is $169. Then again, other places claim $60 to $100 per year savings. I never know what to believe.

Not much info available. I googled for weeks.
Best entry-level generic data I found on ECMs...
http://www.pwaengineering.com/pages/Commercial_Refrigeration_ECM_Motors.pdf

Tempering tanks should get more use.
Well water and wood heat? Uninsulated tempering tank #3 near the stove. Works year round.

My house is older than most caves.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Another Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by ghurd on Fri Mar 20, 2009 at 09:20:45 AM MST

I came across another strange ECM.

This one has a 1-piece housing.
The motor can and brain can are one piece. The brain is potted into the slightly heavier than normal end cap.
The coils are normal ECM style.

Apparently the longer they make them, the more variations there will be.
G-
Ghurd.info

Re: Strange ECM (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by ghurd on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 02:44:37 PM MST

I found the purpose for the Brown Wires.
They go to the thermal overload switch. That is all they do.
Not sure why the spliced brown wires onto the switch's red wires. Maybe because the external connector is molded with the wires.
The switch and wires can be cut out.
G-
Ghurd.info

Strange ECM | 13 comments (13 topical)

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