Fieldlines.com || Make your electricity from scratch!

Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Reviews - Diaries - Our Products

Anchorage last pour
By TomW, Section Diaries Posted on Thu Sep 17, 2009 at 07:05:06 PM MST
Getting on with the tower for the 12 footer I expect later this fall.

In an attempt to document as I go along in this project:
This spring we bored a bunch of post holes for the garden fence. While the guys were here with the power auger we bored the anchor hole for the gin pole. I was not 100% sure what length I wanted for the gin pole so took a Wild Azz Guess and bored it at 16 feet from the tower base with an eyeball alignment with the tower itself. We hit a big rock going in so the hole wandered south of the intended position and I didn't think it was a big deal if it was off a bit to the side. Certainly not worth digging out the rock. Never know if it is softball size, V8 size or RV size. We bored the hole down to what serves as "bedrock" here. All these hills are capped with limestone at various depths and littered with glacial erratics in the soil [those rocks of unknown size]. Very few places you can get much past 3 feet without hitting this limestone on these hills.
Well, I figured out the gin pole and placed it in alignment and it was off about a half hole, that is why the anchor is off to one side at the top of the hole:

I wrapped the 6" pipe with some gnarly old winch cable and used a bunch of #9 wire scraps and some useless old iron to tie in the 10 sacks of concrete mix I ended up dumping in there.That bolt is a grade 5 and has wire over it into the concrete as well as a hook from an old dead stock rack on a chain that is in the concrete. The pipe had a bend in it so it is actually more centered in the bottom of the flared hole than the top is. I believe it will stay with 600# of concrete in the hole 4 feet deep.
Here it is finished off enough to see how it is set up:

And here is a few shots of the whole new tower area. Still kind of brushy but fall will fix that and the bugs.

Entire assembly from winch end:

Gin Pole Pivot:

From gin pole pivot towards winch:

Used my newly acquired concrete mixer for the first time.

As usual lots of pictures of ongoing TW projects over in my Gallery on PICS.WW.com as well as higher resolution versions of those posted here Thanks JacquesM:
http://pics.ww.com/v/TomW/WindFarm/

http://pics.ww.com/v/TomW/FarmStuff/

http://pics.ww.com/v/TomW/WindFarm/Upgrades-09/2009-upgrades/
Enjoy! I know I do.
More as it occurs. One man show so it goes slow.
Tom

Anchorage last pour | 17 comments (17 topical)

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by phil b on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 10:30:42 AM MST

Nice work Tom DubYa! You have got the cart before the horse. That makes good sense. After my mills were finished, I wanted them in the air immediately. I made more mistakes that way.

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by phil b on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 10:34:19 AM MST

BTW, I've never seen batteries like the ones in the photo gallery. Would you give a small rundown on them?

Nice tower and I like your tower cushion also. I did the same.

[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by TomW on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 12:12:52 PM MST

Phil;

Thanks. Really.

Sure, the Batteries are Deka brand D Series EZ Link lead acids [12] 650 AH 2 Volt cells in a metal can a 24 volt system. Built for pallet jacks or smaller forklifts. Full 5 year replacement warranty against failure as long as they are kept flooded.

A bit more battery than my system can keep topped off right now but the new turbine should remedy that some

More over here:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2009/1/30/161351/147

Hah, yep, I turned that cheap sawhorse into an expensive shock absorber when my first gin pole attempt [massively heavy] taught me about vector forces on objects being raised improperly. Nobody injured but I went for a ride on the ATV when it overpowered its traction while on it winching it up with an unguyed gin pole for it that fell over.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by dnix71 on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 05:11:48 PM MST

We have a couple of those Deka batteries on our forklifts at work. $6k each we paid for them, I heard.

Better watch the charging. We have lost three older batteries since the beginning of the year. We don't have enough power to run four chargers at once, so someone id10T decided to jumper the chargers at 480, 480, 240 and 208 volts. We only have 208v. Only one was putting out enough current to equalize the batteries.

Without a good equalizing charge once in while, they all sulfated.

[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by zap on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 08:43:33 PM MST

I think phil might have been asking about the batteries in this photo.
http://pics.ww.com/v/TomW/localoffgridders/100_1656.JPG.html

zap
[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by TomW on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 09:06:09 PM MST

Zap;

All I know is they were telco batteries. Flooded lead acid spiral plates. One of the photos shows the label which is how others found the specs and passed that bit of info on.

I had never seen that type before myself, either.

I saw them along with an old 1.8KW Jacobs on a local off grid homes tour. They had the coolest setup of all at that place.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by ghurd on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 12:17:42 PM MST

Concrete mixer? Lazy...
Next thing you know, everyone will be using something fancier than shovels to dig the holes!

How big will the gin pole be?

Can you remind us of the tower pipe dimensions?

G-

Ghurd.info

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by TomW on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 12:38:16 PM MST

Tower tube is 6.75" tube probably 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick. It was salvage so not sure of original use but seems it was steam pipe?

The gin pole is one 10 foot hunk of 2.5: sched 40 pipe with a 10 ft section of 2" inside it with a stop collar to keep it from collapsing as well as a pinch bolt to clamp it inside the other tube. Approximate full length of the gin pole is 16 feet give or take.

This is the business end of the main mast with the socket for the 10 foot extension for the yaw tube.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by SparWeb on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 01:36:03 PM MST

Hi Tom,

...not sure of original use but seems it was steam pipe...

Any letters and numbers printed on the side?
When I looked at it up close on your album, I noticed the bead around the end of the tube, indicating that it was once coupled with a compression fitting and a ferule or something.

Is that going to be a 20'-30' tower, then? I can see one section of pipe in the tower, and the gin is 16', right?

I'd like to see how you will couple the square stuff up top, when you get to that stage.

Thanks for the pictures!

Steven Fahey
[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by TomW on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 02:10:29 PM MST

Steven;

Well the main tube is 31 feet tall. 2 sections were already welded together [21 foot] I lopped off about 18" from the third tube for the coupler that joins the single section to the welded pair. The tube was originally 10.5 feet with the base connections it comes out to 31 feet. The stub adds about 9 feet now. It needs modded to fit this ones yaw tube so could go longer. My friend John the iron monger made the socket and stub so the stub fits snug and has 2 pinch bolts to keep it in one on adjacent sides. The stub is a very thick laminated tube that goes in the socket. Should be very rigid. If I get a few minutes I will haul it up and stick it on and take some pics. Its at my "shop" for modification but no biggie to stick it on and snaps some pics. If I get time. Didn't get time to haul it up yet but this is what the extension looks like on the end that fits the socket in the main mast:

Full size copy is at this link:

http://pics.ww.com/d/390033-1/100_1679.JPG

John does all of my serious welding. He is certified in several areas and understands "beefy"as well as making the most from the material. Never seen any of his stuff fail to hold up even when abused.

Enjoy.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Yaw Stub Coupling (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by TomW on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 05:23:58 PM MST

Steven;

Here are some pictures of the Yaw stub setup:

The Stub end that fits the mast socket:

The mast end socket that accepts the stub end:

This is a closeup of the assembly assembled shows the pinch bolts:

Overview of the assembly:

Higher Res photos are over here on page 3 at the end:

http://pics.ww.com/v/TomW/WindFarm/Upgrades-09/2009-upgrades/?g2_page=3

Hope that clears up the method used.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Yaw Stub Coupling (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by FishbonzWV on Sat Sep 19, 2009 at 05:56:47 AM MST

Tom,
Very nice work.
It is unique and a one of it's kind fabrication.
The only thing I see that I would be leary of, is the pinch bolts. I think one of them being a through bolt with a nut on the back side to squeeze it tight would let me sleep better during a storm.
Thanks for sharing.

Fishbonz

[ Parent ]

Re: Yaw Stub Coupling (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by SparWeb on Sat Sep 19, 2009 at 10:53:39 AM MST

Thanks for the pictures, Tom. Since I'm one of the folks you and kurt are sticking up for when you enforce the photo size rule, I'll view the full-size versions on Monday at lunchtime when hi-speed internet is available to me.

I see well enough with these pics to bring one question to the forefront: Why are you stepping down so many times, and with so many pieces? This is a weird tower, as you say. Making a yaw mount out of 6" pipe would be rather overkill, I can agree, but using materials at hand can only go so far. My guess is that there are ridges along the corners of the square socket to keep it centered down the round tube. That's a difficult weld to complete down the depth so it's probably only welded at the protruding edge. Leaving only a "contact" joint down the rest of the way. If the welds crack you would have a telescoping tower, unintentionally. The stub only inserts a few inches into that socket, so if you represent the distribution of bending pressures as point forces instead, you're looking at some large stresses when the turbine thrust is high.

Volvo Farmer is also right to be concerned about the base attachment. The all-thread rod will be relied upon to resist, say, 2000 pounds as you raise the tower. That force will be transverse to the 1.5" square stub so I hope it is short! Raising the tower never goes as straight up as you want it. You always get it lolling off to one side by a few degrees. That's an extra bending force on the base that you don't have much safety margin to support.

When you raise the tower, the loose guy wires could get caught on the pinch bolts. If they were shorter you'd have less chance of that happening.

No sugar coating because I know you prefer it that way.
Steven Fahey
[ Parent ]

Re: Yaw Stub Coupling (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by TomW on Sat Sep 19, 2009 at 12:45:06 PM MST

Steven;

Appreciate the candor. Never been big on sweetening things.

That tower base pivot stub is only 5" or so out of the concrete and below the hole is full of concrete so it is pretty rigid I think.

My friend John built the stub from my description of the use and originally for a smaller yaw bearing tube for the 10 footer [~2 inch]. I believe the stepping down was to reduce the diameter as he got closer to the actual stub while retaining rigidity. Each tube is inside the bigger one below it a good bit and he made welds in slots in the sides of the bigger tube to hold them as well as around the box end to inner tube. Same with the round yaw stub. The top guys are at the top of the 6.75" tube mast, none on the stub

John treated the socket box the same way he did the stub mast. Slots on tube welded to rods welded to the socket box full length welded on the box to the tube with steel rod fillers if that makes sense?

I can snag a couple closeups if you are interested in that bit of engineering.

I never looked close but that yaw tube itself probably extends most of the length to the mount end from the top. All the boxing in is for strength. That yaw stub is pretty heavy like 70# itself but never weighed it just heavier than a sack of concrete mix [60#].

I would not be concerned hanging a couple thousand pounds off that stub cantilevered on the horizontal and I think if you saw it in person you would feel similar. There is zero give in the assembly.

Time will tell if I have created a failure waiting to happen.

Thanks for the response.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by bj on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 08:21:23 PM MST

Looking good Tom. Know what you mean about the "one man show", but at least you don't have to worry about someone else messing you up.
Always enjoy your pics.

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Volvo farmer on Fri Sep 18, 2009 at 09:29:11 PM MST

Something about this build really confuses me.

So your gin pole is at 180 degrees to the tower here? Then you somehow raise the gin pole to 90 degrees to the tower before you raise the tower?

And is this the base of your tower? from the looks of things, the whole compressive load of the tower is supported by a 1/2" bolt through a piece of 2" square tubing?

Am I confused? This seems like an unusual tower arrangement, which I have never seen before. Is this based on someone else's work or is it of your own design? I am totally unfamiliar with this design and it seems quite interesting.

Volvo Farmer

Re: Anchorage last pour (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by TomW on Sat Sep 19, 2009 at 04:14:50 AM MST

We call it HillBilly engineering here. Usually involves solving problems with what is to hand.

Yes, it is likely the most oddly built tower base you will encounter. The square tube is heavy wall and not 2 inch but 1.5" sticking out of the concrete about say 5 inches. Very rigid.

Even if the pivot bolt were to snap it seems the tower would still be captive in the area and not be able to scoot out of relative alignment?

Dan Bartmann himself initially thought it was too wimnpy but upon further inspection he gave it approval the last time he was here. Maybe just being nice.

That is a 5/8 or 3/4 SS allthread as the tower pivot. Can't remember which Thinking of going with a grade 5 bolt but the all thread is there now.

Thanks for the feedback.

More as it happens.

Tom

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Anchorage last pour | 17 comments (17 topical)

Menu

� create account
� How to use the board
� FAQs
� search the board
� Google search the board

Login

Make a new account

Username:

Password:

Total Views

��109 Scoop users have viewed this posting.

You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest � 2009 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!