Author Topic: Small Induction Conversion Part Three  (Read 1441 times)

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baggo

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Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« on: November 20, 2004, 01:59:34 PM »
At the end of part 2 I had wound all the 6 coil sets and got the first one installed in the stator. Next day I forged ahead and fitted the remaining 5 coil sets. I did get quite a lot quicker with each one but it was still a very fiddly process. The hole in the stator is only about 2 3/4 inches diameter so there's not much room to get fingers inside. Also because I had used 6 thin wires in parallel to wind the coils, there were 450 wires to get in each slot! The last coil set to go in was by far the worst as all the other coils get in the way.


If you attempt a conversion like this make sure you fit the coils in this order otherwise you will have problems where they have to cross over each other.





At last! All coils are in!








A shot of the new slot insulation This was cut from OHP film. The ends are folded back on themselves and spring out when the insulation is fitted, locking the insulation firmly in place.





The stator was then fitted back into the motor casing, the coil ends fitted with sleeving and all loose wires tied in place. I decided to bring all the coil ends outside so I could swap the connections around easily. A waterproof connector box will be fitted to the outside of the case.





The rotor and end plates were refitted and then all the coil ends were stripped of enamel and all six wires in each end twisted and soldered together.





The rotor spins reasonably easily with only a trace of cogging (thanks to the skewed magnets). I have used the old bearings for the time being which are a little tired but new ones will be fitted when the genny is stripped for painting etc.


Time for some testing!


The motor was mounted in the lathe and run at three speeds with the coils connected firstly in 'Star' and then repeated with them connected in 'Delta'. I measured the voltage and current produced at each speed with a load consisting of a large variable resistor (a length of heater element with a crocodile clip to change the resistance!). The voltage and current readings were taken with different values of the resistor to find the maximum power output at each of the three speeds. Two 35 amp bridge rectifiers were used to rectify the three phase output of the coils.








The results were pretty good and better than I expected. The maximum output in 'star' was 133 Watts at 480 rpm and in 'delta', 123 Watts at 480 rpm. I can't try it at any higher speeds at the moment as the lathe won't go any faster! Also at the higher outputs the lathe motor was struggling to drive the genny and the drive belts were slipping. I'll have to rig up a different test bed with a more powerful motor. Looking at the figures so far I reckon the genny should be good for at least 200 to 250 Watts ( you were right Zubbly!)


Open circuit volts (DC) in star were: 23.2 v at 190 rpm, 41.0v at 320 rpm, and 64.7v at 480 rpm. In delta: 13.5v at 190 rpm, 23.9v at 320 rpm, and 37.3v at 480 rpm.


Now where's that 1 HP motor I've got lying around somewhere!


John

« Last Edit: November 20, 2004, 01:59:34 PM by (unknown) »

hiker

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2004, 02:47:46 PM »
are those ceramic mags your using?

my old maytag lights up 4- 50watt headlights with ease using ceramics..

stock wires..i may hopp it up to neo mags..looks like a good job on the coils!!!

« Last Edit: November 20, 2004, 02:47:46 PM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA

baggo

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2004, 03:17:36 PM »
Hi Hiker,


No, it uses 3/8 inch cube neo's (60 in all). What diameter is the rotor on yours? Looks a bit bigger than this one.


John

« Last Edit: November 20, 2004, 03:17:36 PM by baggo »

baggo

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2004, 03:23:29 PM »
Oops, missed out a photo.


Trace of the wave form from one phase. Not perfect but not too bad.





John

« Last Edit: November 20, 2004, 03:23:29 PM by baggo »

zubbly

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2004, 05:25:08 PM »
Hi Baggo!


Fantastic first attempt and excellent results with your rewind. (i think i know a rewind shop that would hire you  :) )


I love that power curve in delta (speed/volt). charge volt in that size a conversion at 190 rpm in my opinion is just about as perfect as you can get. a 5 foot prop, 3 blade, tsr of 7 (i believe) will give you a fantastic genny.


also, i want to say "thank you" for proving that anyone is capable of doing a rewind with a little effort and determination. the results are well worth it.


looking forward to pics of your genny flying  :)


zubbly

« Last Edit: November 20, 2004, 05:25:08 PM by zubbly »

hiker

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2004, 07:42:39 PM »
i belive its a 1/2 or 3/4 hp motor--thick wire on windings....

made back in the 40s or 50s....

     ITS ALIVE
« Last Edit: November 20, 2004, 07:42:39 PM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA

baggo

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2004, 06:18:30 AM »
Hi Zubbly,


The thanks should go to you for your inspiration and all your work on your diaries. I would not have had a clue without reading those and I learnt a lot from them. I think for somebody with limited workshop facilities these conversions are the way to go. I'm fortunate in having a lathe etc so making dual rotor alternators is no problem but not everybody is so well equiped.


A tower is definitely the next project. Unfortunately I live in a densely populated area. I have quite a long garden at the back so the tower can go down the bottom away from the houses but I think I'm going to be limited to 5 metres height at the most with 2 metre blades max. I did contact our local planning authority about planning permission for wind generators. They got back to me after 6 months! The gentleman concerned had had to 'research' the matter and it was obvious that he still hadn't a clue. His final answer was that if the 'structure' was over 4 metres in height I might need planning permission. Still, I don't suppose they get many queries about putting up wind generators! (not yet anyway). I might start a trend!


I bought a set of the Hornet blades some time ago (cheap on Ebay!) so I will probably try those first. I'm not that hopeful about them though having read posts by Jerry with regard to their poor low wind performance. They don't seem to have a lot of blade area. Will probably have a go at carving a three blade set as you suggest.


I'm going to try changing pulleys on the lathe today to see if I can get some more rpm and do a few more tests. Hmmm, think I may be getting beyond help!


Thanks again for your help etc,


John

« Last Edit: November 21, 2004, 06:18:30 AM by baggo »

baggo

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2004, 08:48:14 AM »
Just done another quick test. Changed the motor pulley on the lathe to a bit bigger one to increase the spindle speed. Results:


Max power in Star at 650 rpm - 198.7 Watts (3.7 Amps at 53.7 volts)


Max power in Delta at 640 rpm - 193.7 Watts (6.2 Amps at 31.2 volts)


Looks as though 650 rpm will be about the cross over speed where the Delta will start to outperform the Star connection.


Had to pack up then as I could smell hot insulation! Turned out to be the lathe motor, not the genny which was still cold!


I've just dug out an old 3/4 HP dual speed induction motor so I'll rig that up to further test the conversion.


Definitely got the bug!


John

« Last Edit: November 21, 2004, 08:48:14 AM by baggo »

Jerry

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Re: Small Induction Conversion Part Three
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2004, 09:35:20 PM »
Hi John


Very intresting report your doing. I'm a conversion addict my self. It is easy.


However I've not atempted a rewind yet. I've been reasigning exsisting coils.


This is very easy on garbage disposal motors.


Following your numbers and test data inspiered me to look back in my wind test note book to see what the Garbogen did in the 500 rpm lathe test.


Using two 24 volt helicopter batteries wiered in perelell as a load the Garbogen was producing 13.01 amps at 26.53 volts for 345.16 watts.


I ran this test for a while to test for heat (no problem). This was with all stock wireing without mods. I used 4 of the $5.50 curved NEOs this site formerly sold.


The conversion became a 2 phase PMA. This was a 1 HP motor. Eager to see your results on you larger motor conversion.


I'm working on a 10 amp 6 pole now. It has 12 of the curved NEOs. I'll report results when in. This one is for 48 volt use.

Keep up the great work.            JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: November 21, 2004, 09:35:20 PM by Jerry »