Author Topic: exciting times !  (Read 2177 times)

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jacquesm

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exciting times !
« on: January 08, 2005, 10:09:01 PM »
So, it's been busy the last couple of days, to put it mildly...



We've been working hard on #2, we made the second rotor, wound all the coils and installed them in the frame and bored a hole through the shaft lengthwise (24" long!!).



Then we put the whole thing together and ran some tests.



The machining did not go without incident, drilling a hole that deep is far from trivial (as I've found out), it took forever. Peck 1/8", pull drill all the way out, flush the hole, clean the bit, oil everything for the next peck, back into the hole and so on. It took 4 hours for that one hole...



The machining of the rotor was also lots of fun, at least it was until the parting bit broke when we were cutting it to size as the last operation. It jammed, broke off, then the fragment jammed, then the whole toolpost got ripped off it's mounting bolt. Very impressive that lathe ! Pretty hard to stop at low revs...



The good news is that the workpiece wasn't damaged, so we hacksawed through the last little bits, and cleaned up the side with an outside bit.



Then I machined the flats on the rotor while Johannes was busy winding the coils and inserting them into the stator.



That was tons of work, but late Friday evening we had it all done and put together, and it looked like it was going to work just fine. Hardly any cogging noticeable, but I'm sure that it can still be better.



The test results are a mixed bag, I blew up the fet booster circuitry through a stupid error (not enough supply voltage on the pulse circuit), so we'll have to wait for another time to get low rev data, higher rev data is: 300W@240 RPM, 930@343 RPM, 1860W@480RPM. We were trying for a 675 RPM reading, but that threw the breaker on the trace inverter so we won't be testing it that fast, at the moment the breaker tripped we were doing about 60A into the batteries, or about 3KW. Pretty impressive to see that little motor stall a 3:1 geared down 1750 RPM 2HP motor !



240RPM is of course a ridiculously high cutin speed, and we still haven't reached the 2.4 KW (so I officially owe Dan $5 now, at least on the basis of these figures...) but it's fairly decent power from a frame this size, though I'd hoped for more.



Each coil is 70 wdg, three of them are seriesed and six of those sets have their leads brought out. These measurements were all done in 'delta/parallel', when I get back I'll run another test using 'star/parallel', then we'll take this machine off the lathe and put Zubbly's on there for a side-by-side comparision.



The 18 coils are excited by 24 1x2x1/2" magnets, for the precise arrangement see the photographs below and the cad drawing in one of my earlier diary entries.



Starting of the drilling of the hole for the inside work:







Boring it out to final diameter, 50mm:







Cleaning up the outside:







Parting off the excess: (this was about 30 seconds before things went really really wrong, I don't have any pictures of the wreckage, I had other things on my mind at the time...)







Finished rotor blank:







Drilling the holes to mount the rotor on the indexer:















Johannes starting on the winding of the coils: (notice the cheerful smile here)







Centering the bore on the indexing table:







Milling the sides:







The stator is filling up nicely:







Finished rotor #2:







Pressing on the second rotor:







Johannes nearly done with the coils: (notice the psycho look, compare to the picture above)







Both rotors side by side:







A view of the magnets glued to the rotor:







Epoxied in, waiting for the epoxy to set:







The last three coils on the pegboard:







The finished rotor:







Inserting the rotor:







The rotor in place:







Test setup:







A single coil on the scope:







Everything in delta-parallel, a single leg on the scope:







Another view of the test setup:





« Last Edit: January 08, 2005, 10:09:01 PM by (unknown) »

monte350c

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2005, 07:36:07 PM »
Hi Jacques,


Nice clean sine on the combined output. Your magnet spacing seems to do the trick.


A favour, we are planning a turbine. We are at the stage where we've poured about 64,000 lb of cement, and installed the base. The goal is to make 220 to 240 VAC and use it for heating. So far nothing to go on top of the pole.


So the favour is...  can you measure your new alternator on AC output into some kind of resistive load like a heater? I would be very interested to see what it does at around 60hz or so. Will it reach 200+ volts?


Thanks for your time - and I'll certainly understand if there's no time for this!


Ted.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2005, 07:36:07 PM by monte350c »

Putte

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2005, 12:38:00 AM »
Thanks for sharing your work Jacques it looks very nice.


Putte.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 12:38:00 AM by Putte »

jacquesm

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2005, 06:15:13 AM »
Hi Ted,



I don't have a sufficiently large resistive element, and this generator is wound for current rather than for voltage, so the output would be fairly low when feeding 240V baseboard heaters. I've looked at a bunch of them, they're ceramic elements and can not be easily 'split'.



In order to drive a resistive heating element I'd wind the alternator completely different, with several high voltage windings, that would come up to 240V easily (but with a high Ri), to be paralleled as the current goes up, maximum power would be generated when all the windings are parallel, and then their resistance should equal the resistance of the heating element.



Overall I'd expect that to be about 25% more power than what I'm doing into a battery, so for a 16' machine running 600 RPM (which would be fairly fast!) you'd be looking somewhere between 2000 and 3000 Watts.



For a proper test I'd need a 48V 3KW resistive element, if you have an easy way of getting or fabricating one then please let me know and I'll run your test up to the point where the lathe won't be able to drive it, you can extrapolate it from there.



I intend to weld a rig that I can hook up to my tractor to give me enough power to run this kind of alternator at fairly high RPMS under full load, I need to do that because I want insight in the thermal issues in the core, and that's much easier on the ground than 60' up in the air (I realise that there will be less cooling on the ground).



« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 06:15:13 AM by jacquesm »

TomW

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2005, 01:00:54 PM »
Jacques;



I don't have a sufficiently large resistive element, and this generator is wound for current rather than for voltage, so the output would be fairly low when feeding 240V baseboard heaters. I've looked at a bunch of them, they're ceramic elements and can not be easily 'split'.



I find that you can get about any resistive load you want using kiln heating element wire. I should of given you some as I have 20 feet of it or so. you can parallel short lengths to get any value you need. I think it is simply nichrome wire. Most pottery supply houses should carry it and its just wire so cutting and attaching it is easy.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 01:00:54 PM by TomW »

monte350c

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2005, 02:52:08 PM »
Great idea Tom,


I'll see if I can track some of this type of wire down locally and post the results Monday. I live in a town with lots of refineries and chem plants so there may be some uses for the wire in the plant processes. We'll see!


Thanks for the input Jacques. I was thinking of trying the series resonant circuit for resistive heating. It can produce a demand curve on the load side that follows the cube power thing in the wind closely and with minimum parts count. Just a capacitor...


Ted.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 02:52:08 PM by monte350c »

RobC

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2005, 08:24:34 AM »
Just go to your local junk yard if you have one and find an old electric furnace. the heating coils work great for load testing.RobC
« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 08:24:34 AM by RobC »

jimjjnn

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2005, 10:43:10 AM »
Electric dryer heating elements should work also. There are lots of dryers that are scrap now with good heating elements. Both 110 and 220 volts.

Most have 2 elements with some industrial dryers having more. already mounted to a good steel plate and all hi temp ceramic heat insulators in place.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 10:43:10 AM by jimjjnn »

jimjjnn

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2005, 10:46:55 AM »
Electric dryer elements also have spade type connectors or screw type. Already to hook up and probably pretty CHEEP !!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 10:46:55 AM by jimjjnn »

monte350c

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Re: exciting times !
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2005, 10:58:21 AM »
Good thinking! I phoned around to various supply houses here this morning and got the same basic answer. Wattages from 4,500 to 6,500 and the units have exposed coils so you can put taps in to suit the voltage.


Plus new they range from $15 to $25. Used - perhaps free!


Ted.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 10:58:21 AM by monte350c »