Author Topic: random thoughts from a new guy, wind/automotive mostly  (Read 1461 times)

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kitno455

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random thoughts from a new guy, wind/automotive mostly
« on: March 23, 2005, 06:18:46 PM »


  1. ford suv's with rear disks often use a small drum brake inside the hat on the rotor as a parking brake. with those as your two rotors, if you cand find a way to keep the parking brake working, you could have automatic overspeed or manual lock down, inside the rotors.
  2. the 79-85 caddy eldorado, seville, olds toronado, buick riviera, and the mid 80's and up chevy s10 and s15 4x4's (pickup and blazer) front hubs can be unbolted from the spindle. it has huge bearings and a ~1 inch diameter splined hole thru it for the axle shaft. the axle and nut is part of what holds the unit together, so you would have to keep part of it (or use good althread, spacers and washers). the mounting flange is a three bolt triangle. the inner lip seal is part of the spindle, so you loose that when you remove it. The bolt flange is gm midsize (5 bolts on 4 3/4 circle).
  3. there are older (larger) versions of the eldo and toro, which may work the same as #2, and have 5 on 5 bolt pattern, and likely bigger disks.
  4. any autoparts store can sell you larger (12 inch) rotors for the gm 5 on 4 3/4 pattern- just ask for the 1LE rotor out of an 88-92 camaro.
  5. many full-size vans have the steering box and steering column at weird angles to one another. they also often have pretty good size (3/4 thru 1 1/8) shafts. this can be a really good place to get pillow block bearings and universal joints. some are d section with a set-screw, some are double-d with a pinch bolt, some are splined with a pinch bolt. it depends heavily upon the year and the brand. these could be useful for those doing motor conversions that have the rotor with separate bearings, and need a drive-shaft between the two. otherwise mis-alignment could cause problems. there is also a 'rag joint' in many of these units, which might be useful as a damper for smaller turbines.
  6. if you are doing a conversion that requires a ratio change, look into using a planetary steering speed reducer/increaser from a circle-track racing shop. low stiction, sealed, reversible, and they dont require your prop to be offset from your motor shaft (lower profile nacelle) if you thing your unit is too big for that, look at using a planetary out of any automatic trans mission. i have built one using 2 squares of 1/4 inch steel plate, with holes bored in the center. the planetary, the thrust washers, and the seals came from a gm automatic. getting the two squares laser cut was the most expensive part. a guy with a lathe could make it round instead.
  7. i keep thinking about getting the gen down off the tower for big motor conversions, it might enable something crazy like using a regular generator, external field excitation instead of PM's, etc. if not using a vawt, you would need a right-angle drive.


most obvious choice from the auto motive world is a differential. it also includes a gear reducer/multiplier (which may be bad). The amount of prop you would need to turn all of this might make it pointless, but some things can be done to reduce drag, like switching the gear oil for ATF.


smaller 4 cyl car with independent rear suspension (subaru) will give you a lightweight (often aluminum) case, ~4:1 gear ratio, and have mounting tabs on the housing. ford broncos and older ranger 4x4's have a TTB front diff which has an absolutely beautiful mounting flange built into the diff cover, that composes the whole suspension arm. thunderbirds and merc cougars and the lincoln mark vii have an independent diff too. the lincoln is aluminum housing. older jags have inboard disk brakes (bolted to side of diff) so you get those too.


you will have to lock the diff from differentiating, cause it will free-wheel when you pull out one of the axle shafts. you could buy a spool, reduces weight, or you could put a couple blobs of weldment on the side gears (lincoln locker).


drive the pinion with your prop and get lower speed, higher torque output. might work for a 4 or 6 pole gen. would require a serious (preferably hollow) driveshaft. would likely have trouble starting unless the prop was huge (or there were two of them)


drive the side gear at a lower rpm, get a higher one out of the pinion. use a huge prop, turning slowly for low winds, and a tiny, fast driveshaft. now you're talking!


8. a diff can be used as a CVT! it requires a variable braking member, and it would get you tossed out of the SAE, but it actually works. depending on the ratio of teeth in the side and spider gears, and the ring and pinion ratio, if you power one axle flange, and have an un-applied brake on the other, the spider gears walk the driven side gear, and turn the other sidegear. the diff carrier does not move, so the pinion does not move. geared neutral. as you apply the brake on the free side, the pinion becomes the path of least resistance, and power is applied. with the brake fully locked, the ratio goes up to something like 1:6


allan

« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 06:18:46 PM by (unknown) »

inode buddha

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Re: random thoughts from a new guy, wind/automotiv
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2005, 11:42:09 AM »
FWIW the older Chevy/GMC PowerGlide auto trannies had a 2:1 low gear. For a wind genny application, I could easily see fastening the outer ring gear to a back plate.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 11:42:09 AM by inode buddha »

kitno455

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Re: random thoughts from a new guy, wind/automotiv
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2005, 12:07:44 PM »
yeah, perhaps even better than cutting up an auto trans, is using a transfer case. the new process 20x that is used in the s10 4x4's is pretty small, and could be modified with a steel backplate over just the low gear portion. though, the np 24x series has a better looking lighter rotating mass planetary.


but, the best bet if you can handle the weight, is a np203 full-time case. it has a cast iron low gear box, that unbolts from the main case. that is perfect if you can handle the weight.... look for a product called the ORD doubler. mounting plates for it....


allan

« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 12:07:44 PM by kitno455 »

Peppyy

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Rotors and hubs
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2005, 04:46:32 PM »
This is good information and pretty much what I have been looking for. I know that new rotors are fairly inexpensive and I couldn't remember which ones it was that came in a standard oversize. As I remember though, aren't these rotors "Vented" instead of solid? Now what we need is a standard trailer hub with the same bolt pattern that is readily available and there is half your genny. If someone could come up with the least expensive off the shelf parts that bolt together with allthread/ threaded rod that would be a huge help to a lot of folks who are building one for the first time,


Of course the next big hurdle is the genny mount, especially for those of us who don't have access to a welder and torches.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 04:46:32 PM by Peppyy »

electrondady1

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Re: Rotors and hubs
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2005, 05:40:32 PM »
utilizing car parts is cool. and ive got lots to choose from . how about a front axil from an anchient chevy. wooden spoke wheels. i wanna leave them intack and build a genni around them .
« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 05:40:32 PM by electrondady1 »

kitno455

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Re: Rotors and hubs
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2005, 09:27:44 AM »
yes, all gm front rotors are going to be vented (except maybe the chevette) i dont know of any car that uses a large, non vented rotor, the chance of warping and the likelyhood of heat saturation are so much higher with solids. you are probably limited to 10 inches with solid rotors.


that said, a vented rotor could have half of its surface machined away, and it would actually look alot like a stator, with teeth and everything, or you could make it completely flat. i have actually seen a rotor like this in the salvage yard. it was driven for so long with a bare backing plate for an inner pad, that the cast iron was machined away down to the vents.


off the shelf is good, but salvage/recycler often has a better selection and lower prices. (of course, i am spoiled by a local one-price-fits-all you-pull-it nearby).


the hub i mentioned above is a bolt on, unlike most trailer units that require welding the spindle.


allan

« Last Edit: March 24, 2005, 09:27:44 AM by kitno455 »

ghurd

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Re: Rotors and hubs
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2005, 11:38:31 AM »
LOL.  A guy I knew drove a Jeep truck until the rotor actually wore completely

through, leaving the part near the hub, and a free wheeling clanking steel donut!

Have not thought about him in years...

G-
« Last Edit: March 24, 2005, 11:38:31 AM by ghurd »
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kitno455

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Re: random thoughts from a new guy, wind/automotiv
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2005, 07:53:41 AM »
for those still interested in working with brake drum setups, the 60's RWD full-size buick sedans have huge aluminum brake drums on the front. 5x5 bolt pattern, with cast iron hub pressed into the drum. you should be able to press out the hub, and use the drum on any other gm 5x5 hub. it has an steel ring pressed in for the actual friction surface on the inside. it uses 9/16 wheel studs, which are availible much longer than stock, because they are required for various nhra racing classes. these drums look great polished and clearcoated.


also, there was an option for aluminum drums in the 88-92 camaro/transam they are smaller 5x4.75 bolt pattern, but also have the steel liner.


best place i can think to get a simple 5x5 hub is either the FWD eldo/toro i mentioned in the first post (if it is removeable) or, the 70's gmc front-wheel drive motorhomes. they had two trailer axles in the rear, and there is tons of info for them online. those rear hubs could be useful...


allan

« Last Edit: March 26, 2005, 07:53:41 AM by kitno455 »

nanotech

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Re: random thoughts from a new guy, wind/automotiv
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2005, 10:00:02 PM »
Another one to think about for the spindles/hubs and differentials if the Chevy LUV 4X4 pickup (older brother to the S-10).


They are getting few and far between nowadays (unless you're in northern California), but if you can find one, the diff bolted to the front frame members.  Also the hubs were 6 bolt, which I would think would make life easier for those of you doing a 3 phase system....


Another one to consider for weight and size constraints is the mid-80's Toyota Tercel 4X4 wagon.  The rear axle is a VERY light duty one, and I do believe the rear struts are identical to the fronts, just the tie rods are hard bolted to the chassis (put a steering box on them and you've got 4 wheel steering...) so you could use the entire axle if you wanted.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 10:00:02 PM by nanotech »

ghurd

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Re: Rotors and hubs
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2005, 03:53:33 PM »
The brake pad backing plates wore through the rotor.

G-
« Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 03:53:33 PM by ghurd »
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