diesel power

[bob g]

got back yesterday with the crates,

got them opened today, and was very happy with the  contents

engine #1, a changfa 12 hp diesel electric start, 350 lbs of very well constructed engine

engine #2, a chanfa 6 hp diesel crank start, 135 lbs of same.

both engine's are water cooled,

i cant tell you how impressed i am with these units so far, it is amazing to me how much you get for the money with these engines.

the 12hp will be mated to a 7.5 kwatt ST head, another heavy unit, 1800rpm 120/240 60hz alterntor head.

the 6 hp will be mated with a prestolite/leece neville load handler alternator, 140 amp at 12 volt for battery charging contolled by a 4 stage marine controller, and a refrigeration compressor. i will incorporate a relay system to switch between these two loads as demand dictates.

we did some testing of fuels today, or rather started a long list of alternative fuels.

we started with waste hydraulic oil as a diesel replacement, and found it to start and run without odor, or smoke. Was surprised at the ourcome of that expercise,

stepped up to running 20 weight motor oil and found it also to run flawlessly in  a the 12 hp at operating temperature. although it does smoke a bit when at room temp 75 degrees F.

we didnt go any heavier with the oils today, and don't plan to. The vicosity seems to be as heavy as i would ever want to use anyway.

i think i will wait until the engines are mounted to do testing in dual fuel modes, ie. wood gas, alcohol and propane.

if all goes as expected these engines should run well on just about anything i can get my hands on that is properly filtered, and of suitable viscosity to inject, and of course veggy oils, both new and reclaimed.

our engine oil supplier has agreed to supply us with a 375 gallon tote full of the tail drainings of 55 gallon drums they have as returns. this oil will be a mix of everything from motor oil to hydraulic and transmission fluids. we may need to correct or lower the viscosity with kerosene or diesel to use it though. If that can be made to work, the possibility of a useable no cost/low cast fuel is pretty exciting.

boy this is just like christmas

bob g

[electrondady1]

 i love engines and have built several but my experience with diesels is limited to one 2000 hp straight 8 cylinder(about as big as a school bus)  it ran on something called bunker oil which was heated to increase its viscosity.

my understanding is that the compresion ratio in a diesel is so high the fuel detonates.

 by using different fuels wont this detonation/ignition occur at different compresion points?

 also,wouldn't different fuels also require  different air/fuel ratios?

you guys seem to be able to squirt in any old muck and the engine just laughs it off.

if propane can be utilized in this sane engine would hydrogen be a possible fuel candidate?

[windstuffnow]

  Ok Bob, now I'm jealous... your having way to much fun!  Where did you order them from?  Did you get them from George?

  I've been tossing the idea around about one of the 6hp units myself.  Any idea on the fuel burn per hour on that one?

Ok, continue having fun... I'm sure they'll find a way to make a law prohibiting fun or a way to tax it.

.

[wdyasq]

Ed,

This is a general comment on fuel burn for diesel engines.  Of the hundreds, if not thousands, of fuel consumption charts I have read all get 20hp/gal/hr within 10% or so.  To simply relate this, if the engine is burning a quart of fuel an hour it is 'making 5hp'.

In another life, I opted for a 43hp turbocharged diesel over the similar sized naturally breathing version in a small powerboat, small being 38'. There was about 2-3% better fuel consumption in theory for the turbo unit but the real trade out was I felt the exhaust bark would be broken by the turbo and the chosen engine would be more quiet.

In discussions with friends who know and have tended many more diesels than most folks will ever actually see there is a belief that possibly the best diesels for home/RE use may be a modern diesel 'de-rated' to a lower RPM. Newer diesels can be all but leak free, they benifit from many years of mistakes corrected and parts are available in 'local' shops.  For example, the engines on refrigerated trailers run 30-40k hours between overhauls.  Lowering the speed, using a bypass filter to assure it has clean oil at all times, 'polishing the fuel' (simply good filtration) and a good clean supply of air should push the life of the engine upwards.  One will want to also make sure the engine is run at a proper load - 60-75% or so of the power it can produce at that speed range.

Ron

[Bruce S]

Bob g

That is impressive. Small question and don't mean to pry, what was the cost of these two enignes and what's to sound levels?

Also in one of the old--old Mother Earth News mags , they had a watse oil burner setup. It wasn't for engines, but it had a real good setup for cleaning  up the sludge and extras that came with waste oils.

This would be a good start while you get everything else in place for more extensive testing.

Bruce S

[bob g]

hi electrondady

"my understanding is that the compresion ratio in a diesel is so high the fuel detonates."

yes it is a compression ignition system, high compression, high heat of compression, and timed injection provide ignition.

detonation and ignition are two different animals, yes the charge is ignited in each, but

detonation is an unplanned and destructive event, ignition is non destructive and planned or timed event

in a dual fuel engine, the alternate fuel being high in octane rating waits to be ignited by a limited amount of diesl called the pilot fuel.

yes different fuels have differing air fuel ratio's, but in a dual fuel engine things are different than a gasoline engine.

yes hydrogen can be utilized, but i don't have a ready and cheap source to test it, and have no plans to use it.

never enuf time, darn thing called work keeps gettin in the way.

bob g

[bob g]

Ed:

the consumption is listed on the 12 hp at 251 grams/kwatt/hr, i would figure in another 251 or so for windage, pumping and frictional losses.

i dont remember the little engine consumption but should be very near the same rating

went to see George at Utterpower, a couple of months back, saw what he had, and really like the listers, when it comes time for one of those, george is the man.

still smiling here

never enuf time

bob g

[bob g]

hi Bruce

a friend of mine found these in portland, oregon. we went down and bought a pair of 12hp, a pair of 6's and a pair of 7.5 kwatt ST heads. by doing it together and providing our own shipping we got a pretty good deal.

i would post prices, but i am not sure the seller would sell more at this price, unless it was a larger order as we did, rather than a single engine.

although i would think you could get a 6 hp for around 250 or so US, plus shipping

as for sound level, they are louder than a lister, but i don't think alot louder, seem like they are about 1/2 as loud as my neighbor and his 5hp brigg lawnmower.

i think a noise enclosure would be fairly easy to do, to get them within a very reasonable level

bob g

[Experimental]

     Hi Bob,

   Talked to this man myself, and was going to go look at his engines and gens -- but haven,t had the need quite yet -- still several other things i need before this !!

   I am curious though -- you must be pretty close to my area -- where are you located, I,m on Whidbey Island, in Washington -- are you near by ??   Bill H..

[richhagen]

I was talking to a trucker about these refer units, he mentioned that you can have them for next to nothing off of wrecked trailers at scrap yards, and that some folks were using them to heat and cool there homes with the refrigeration unit as well.  Rich

[bob g]

hi there neighbor

i am currently living in south end of tacoma, nearly spanaway.

small world

bob g

[bob g]

i bought one of those about 3 years ago, it is a thermoking unit, diesel 4 cylinder 2.1 liter isuzu engine.

i thought it to be a bit of overkill, but will use it for bulk cooling.

i needed a unit to build into a cogenerator, ie heat and power. my target was 2 one hour runs per day.

i became concerned with the bulk charge rate needed to bring back up the planned battery bank, when upon reevaluating the need the battery bank became smaller.

that is when the problem with having too large a unit to deliver far more charge rate than i needed. most especially during spring and fall, when either the heat generated would not be needed or the cooling capacity as well not needed.

that is when i started thinking of a unit sized more in line to the needs of the sping and fall months.

quite frankly as cogenerators the 12 hp unit should be pretty close to filling the bill during the heavy heating and cooling months as a cogenerator, and the 6 hp unit should work well during the spring and fall as a cogenerator or electricity and domestic hot water.

these units as cogenerators more closely fit the need projected.

i am going to go ahead and install the thermoking for those times when in the summer i get home and it is over 100 degree's and want a fast cool down. or in the winter when i need a fast warm up. This is where the thermoking really kicks butt, that is mass btu's

bob g

[Experimental]

    Great Bob,  perhaps we can get together one day, and compare toys !!

    I would love to see what you are doing with those engines -- my email is above..Bill H..