Author Topic: Cave Dwelling (Read 2569 times)

Nowhere man · « **on:** December 20, 2005, 04:10:47 PM »

Where to start?

Well love the site pure inspiration, Been in the woodwork for sometime now. I am looking into buying 1200 mtr2 of land here in Tenerife. Now it has a cave of 30 mtrs2 water is on site but no power its rural land. It's not possible to build but there is no problem to excavate. I would love to be off grid we have lots of sun and lots of wind the plot is next to one of Tenerife's own wind farms and if its good enough for them!!! And as I said before good year round sun as we are just off the coast of Africa. I would have to start with a diesel genny at first as I am sorry to say I do like power tools call me lazy but time is money too it will all be weekend work or slow periods as I am self employed. I will have help a good friend of mine he loves nothing better than Biking and spending the weekend at the cave his farther-in-law was born in. Did I mention good wine. Well any wine lol. His place has six rooms now all excavated by hand but no power as its only a weekend thing. I would like to do to go the whole hog. "The Good Life" Old English tv sit com about going self sufficient good stuff. Some of my mate's think I am mad but wish me luck all the same and even like the idea of wineing mineing weekends. Some even suggested we dig a 300 room Ecotel I like people who think big!!!

But even if get to ok for me to live in, Two years the land is paid just for off setting my rent on my 50mtr2 appartment and I like that very much. I will be starting from scratch thats why its cheap. I like to recycle you should see the amount of bathrooms an kitchens I have had to skip. Probably enough to have ensuit and dinners in every room of that Ecotel lol. So as much as poss will be saved from the skip.

I see getting on line there as one of the biggest problems I am going to have any ideas on that would be good. And if I get this off the ground or should I say under the ground! Had to be said sorry. I will post the pics as it happens. Any comments suggestions prods in the right direction are most welcome. As I will be picking your brains for info on power gen and probably every other subject on this fantastic site.

Dave

Aelric · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2005, 11:26:01 AM »

I think its a great idea. I am looking into a subterranian dwelling myself (although mine isn't a cave, it will be more of a structure that is earth bermed) Many benefits to living with earth around and above you. Soil acts as thermal mass to regulate the temprature around you, I have seen reports that from Idaho and Illinois and even the new england area of the US that such dwellings rarely drop below 50 degrees even in the coldest part of winter (and thats without help from wood burning stove or any other kind of heater) and they don't get hot in the summer either. My approach will probably use earthtubes (not sure if I want to go active or passive in it yet, i have seen an idea for a solar chimney that is supposed to help draw the air thru the tubes but I don't know how good that would be) Might just incorporate a fan into the tubes to help. As to energy Windpower is an excellent choice, might add a bit of PV to the mix, most of the people here say that it is a good balance because the wind usually blows when the sun isn't shining. As to the internet question only a few options come to mind. Satellite internet (very expensive but fast on the downstream) looks like its still about 80-100 dollars a month. Dialup or if they have it available one of the other services like DSL or Cable Internet. Just a few ideas.

Phil Timmons · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2005, 12:52:08 PM »

WOW! That sounds pretty cool.

Going to be a caveman, eh? I am jealous.

Is that this "Tenerife?" >>>

http://www.abouttenerife.com/

Somewhere between Spain and Africa? Sounds great.

There is a cave somewhere on a Texas ranch where we have been putting a bunch of Solar equipment over the last couple of months. We have joking about going to find the cave and turn it into a house.

Can you send some pix of what you have got? Southern exposure on the opening? (for reflected/directed light, etc.) Or is that so far South it does not matter?

Nowhere man · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2005, 01:48:46 PM »

Yep

Thats Tenerife more Africa than Spain local at least. Look at the history Franco planned his revalution here, we have a volcano more than one infact pyramids and mummies I kid you not. Small but intresting.There are lots of cave houses here and in southern spain. I just love the idea that if you get vistors just dig another room.I am looking at all options for power and we have lots of golf courses here 7 I think so batts should be no problem. I have d.s.l here in my appartment but to get A line to the cave may be another thing but good if poss. will post photos as soon as I get some I do not own the plot yet "Red tape" Lots here. Working on it. As for my genny I have an endless supply of used cooking oil as the biggest tourist resort on the island is less than 30 min drive from the plot. And it is full of my chip eating countrymen.

Hope to get photos of plot asap but waiting for paperwork to be done here, In true Canarian style mañana mañana "I do like that pace of life"

Will keep you posted

ghurd · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2005, 02:12:21 PM »

Tenerife looks wonderful!

I did not know.

Is English widely spoken? Vendors, on the street, taxis, restaurants...

Use that chip oil!

G-

Nowhere man · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2005, 03:15:09 PM »

Spanish English and lots more The islands belong to Spain so they are part of Europe. The biggest resort in the south is mostly British good for a night out but I would not like to live there thousands of Brits in holiday mode. Has its good and bad points.

Same same everywhere I guess.

Dave

Old F · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2005, 08:54:02 PM »

Sounds great best of luck on daves cave.

Old F

scottsAI · « **Reply #7 on:** December 22, 2005, 12:52:30 AM »

Internet.

WiFi used with a high gain directional antenna, record is 62 miles.

They did cheat by boosting the signal with a 5 watt amplifier.

Using Stock parts 16miles is possible.

This is all assuming you have a place to get it from. Using Repeater works too.

Cost is not much if you build your own antenna. Type of antenna will depend on the total distance.

Nice thing about the Internet, you can do your phone to. If the near by resort has open Internet for their customers, tap in:-)

Have fun,

Scott.

Nowhere man · « **Reply #8 on:** December 22, 2005, 03:09:44 AM »

Hi Scott

I will look into WiFi. Not sure if the resort has open internet. How could I find out? will look it up. But a directional antenna suggests you need to see the target area, This could be a problem as the land is very rough as its volcanic. I know I can not get the local radio station at the site. but food for thought

Bruce S · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2005, 08:35:19 AM »

Dave;

Sounds way cool. On the WIFI side; go talk to the hotel owner. While offering to take all that old oil out of his way see if you can get to the top of the roof. If you can even closly see where you're cave is at then you can build/buy a WIFI repeater as well as broad range inline DB boosters. Boost the signal before going into the repeater ( this will keep the spurious noise down). You'll also need smaller boosters inside the cave as once you get past the opening the signal will drop to 'nil used to be a part-time speellunker ( before marriage).

The lower part of the cave will be best lit by LEDS in the beginning, as even the littlest light will be HUGE down there and they draw very little power.

You will need to becarefull about building up sulfuric acid levels in the lower levels when you start putting them in. The nice part is that the temps in the lower parts will help the batts live a long and happy life, due to the fact that the temps will not be swinging from hot to cold and back. Also, once wire is run and like you like it solder the connections and put a battery terminal gel on them, the volcano stuff will be corrosive to the copper connections.

Here for internet there is also the broadband option, not that expensive and like some one else pointed out you can even get free IP phone service.

Water, is it inside the cave? and or fresh water?

Ocean water can be dealt with by using a solar still to get fresh drinkable water , just not a lot at a time. If fresh water is in the cave, have it tested for high amounts of sulfur and carbon. It too can be routed to a solar still to be made drink safe.

Question? are there any more available? :-)) would like to have a place like you describe to disappear to too:-)))

Anxious to see pictures too.

Bruce S

Gordy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 22, 2005, 12:26:43 PM »

Bruce,

In recent posts here, and other power's page under lighting. It's been said that cfl's are better than led's for light output and general lighting. Led's are fine for small thing's like flash light's, spot lights, reading light's, ect.

Gordy

scottsAI · « **Reply #11 on:** December 22, 2005, 01:22:21 PM »

Nowhere man,

The location many not be the problem you imagine.

You will have a wind turbine? Great place to put an antenna!!

Include antenna for TV and Radio while your at it.

If the volcano is in the way, as in taller than your tower then you have a problem.

Can you put a repeater on top of the Volcano?

With a radio, get a balloon send it up on a string, find out how high up it needs to go.

The essayist way to find if they have open WiFi is to call and ask:-)

Tell them you are considering a stay there, you require the use of the laptop outside.

If that does not work, go there with a laptop, try connecting. Some places charge for WiFi...

How far away is the resort?

Have fun,

Scott.

Bruce S · « **Reply #12 on:** December 22, 2005, 04:17:40 PM »

Gordy

Very Very true; but with caves the humidity will degrade the CFL's life span pretty quick, found this while using them in the laundry room.

The LEDs would/could also only be a short term fix until the batts and wiring was finished. They can also be affixed into water proof containers without the worry of them getting too hot.

It is amazing how much light a little 2 AA light will put out when there is absolutley no other light around. Plus you get about 4 times the time of usage before the batteries need recharging, versus the standard pen light bulbs.

It only took me one time of being 1/2 mile into a cave from the entrance to make sure I not only had backup lights but also a backup to the backup lights. That's when you're glad your mind knows what your hands are doing.

Bruce S

John II · « **Reply #13 on:** December 22, 2005, 09:43:59 PM »

Hello: I live in the central U.S. When we started building our house and shop, we purchased a diesel generator set. I soon discovered that it was totally annoying having it running full throttle while I was running a quarter inch drill or a jig saw or scratching my head wondering what to do in between it all ! It was fine for large items... but not for the small stuff.

In our particular case, I parked the diesel, bought my P.V. panels and plugged in an inverter and enjoyed silent power : )

If it happens to be sunny where you are at nearly constant, you might want to consider forgoing the Gennie and putting the same amount of money into your P.V. array. Just a thought anyhow.

Another option would be to let your diesel generator also power a fairly large battery charger connected to a small set of batteries and hooked to your inverter.

In Missouri a couple of folks tried building homes in large caves, but they were wet caves and even running dehumidifiers around the clock, they still had severe mold problems. But it sounds like you have fairly dry caves there which sound wonderful.

On lighting... just a personal thing, but I find LED lighting wonderful for lighting pathways, hallways, and anywhere you don't want to trip in the dark. But I personally find their light to harsh (almost a welder blue temperature color) for reading lights, or lights where you want to do close up work. I have invested in almost $400.00 trying out about different led lights... and so far they are all to harsh for close up work to my liking.

Whishing you all the best.

John II

ghurd · « **Reply #14 on:** December 22, 2005, 09:59:32 PM »

John

Check your email

G-

Nando · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2005, 09:10:03 AM »

A couple of years back, I was connecting with a fellow in Tenerife, he was connecting via Wi-Fi about 10 or so Kilometers, unhappily the info is lost in a dead hard disk.

Also, some groups there working with the same idea, if I find some info I will direct it to you.

Wi-Fi is being used in South America for PC and telephone connections, cheaper than Cellular phones.

Nando

Nowhere man · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2005, 06:16:19 AM »

Hello All!!

Lots of fantastic comments and ideas. Sorry I have not had much time as it is the season to be well! running around like a mad man? My mum has arrived to escape from the cold staying for three months. The WiFi I am looking into did not think of putting the antener on the tower. "Fool" not that I have one yet. Photos of the plot will be after the New Year. Been looking at light tubes as in piping out side light in for day time. I would like to have wind and P.V. and not use a genny but to start with I think its all I will have to work with then keep for back up. The sooner I can move in the better as after extra gas I should have around 500 euros to spend on getting things nice. As I dont want to live in a damp dark cave!

Well got to go. Keep the comment coming lot of food for thought.

Merry Christmas.

Dave

Nando · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2005, 08:15:20 AM »

Humidity is relative.

I am aware of some people living in Caves that have very low humidity levels.

Others, in the same area, have "plastered" the walls to stop the water seepage and reduce the humidity.

In Tenerife, the one I had contact with, his cave, mostly man made, had low humidity, he built it during a five years cycle, working few hours a week, until he acquired a small air driven equipment that allowed him to quadruple his work and end up with a beautiful cave setting, I wish his photos were at my reach to display them.

He found a small water spring when he was finishing one of the rooms, so he even had available clear fresh water, around 400 liters a day.

He placed roof rods and roof covering to stop possible drops and in addition re-enforcing some of the areas, just to be safe during nature up/downs.

He brought light via 500 mm light pipes and intake light concentrators, and regulated the internal temperature with outside filtered variable air, sometimes too cold for his family liking.

Beautiful cave arrangement.

Nando

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