Put Some Light On The Subject

[complex ed]

I live 30 miles south of Mobile on the gulf. During Katrina, like most of the idiots that waited to long to leave and had to witness the incredible storm surge and its destruction of my home, have decided to rebuild from the inside out.  7+ feet of water requires the stripping of electrical wiring and boxes, all walls, ceilings, etc. I would appreciate any ideas or comments on collection and storage of power and its relation to solar panels and how many lightbulbs I want to turn on ;-)  Am hardheaded southern woman that is a quick learner.  Want to start on small project (3-4 bright lights for working after dark) and build up to make life a little easier during and after our next friendly hurricane.  Life happens, we just need to adapt ;-)

Oh, and I have read some of the harsh comments from some of the regulars for those with redundant queries.  Please be pleasant, no need for condescending tones for those of us who just want to learn something new and quickly without having to do indepth searches and downloading manuals of inadequate information for the purpose of which we intend to use it.  

I have read information on batteries and may be able to acquire a couple of industrial forklift batteries from my work.  Other than that, my electrical experience is limited to installing lighting and ceiling fans.

Sincerest thanks for all ideas.... ~Edwina

[Countryboy]

Hello Edwina,

  A 36V system sounds like overkill for 3 or 4 lights.

  I think simplicity is what you are looking for.

  Since you have experience with wiring lighting, I would recommend you use wire up a string of car headlights directly to a 12V battery.  A car battery will work, but a deep cycle battery is better.  Please be careful not to run the car battery dead, as that shortens the life expectancy of car batteries.  If you are willing to have less bright lights, car tail lights use about 25 watt bulbs.

Multiply the number of lights (3 or 4) times the wattage use of each light bulb, times the hours a day you will have them on equals daily wattage consumption.

For example, four 100 watt bulbs will use 400 watts an hour, times 4 hours daily, equals 1600 watts.

That means that you need a solar panel that can produce 1600 watts a day.

You typically get 6 hours of good sunlight a day.  1600 watts divided by 6 hours equals 266.6 watts of necessary production.  You may want to get 300W of panels to be on the safe side.  Solar panels cost roughly $4 per watt.  300W of solar panels will cost you about $1200.  Going solar, it will cost you $300 to run a 100 watt lightbulb 4 hours a day.

Another alternative would be to use your car to recharge the battery for the lights, or to rig up a lawn mower engine running a car alternator for battery charging.

Another cheaper solution (cheaper than solar) is to buy an Ametek 30VDC motor on eBay (about $50) and build an Ametek windmill.  An Ametek 30VDC can produce about 100watts maximum, but they make a good cheap trickle charger.  http://www.watchtv.net/~rburmeister/ametek.html

[Countryboy]

Oops.

Most industrial forklift batteries are 36V.  That is where I got the 36V from.

Also, you may want to look into 12V compact fluorescent light bulbs.  Compact fluorescents use much lower watts, and still produce the same lumens as incandescent light bulbs.

If you use compact fluorescents, you can get away with a much smaller solar system.  However, in emergency situations, it can be much easier to find a car battery and car light bulbs to use than compact fluorescents.

[drdongle]

Depending on the type of battery you may be able to separate the individual cells ( 2V each) and rewire them for a larger capacity 12 battery rather than 36 volts.

As for lighting I would suggest a few 12 VDC CFFL lights from an RV supply house and/or modifying halogen desk lamps by disconnecting the power transformer and powering them directly from 12 V ,these are usually about 10 watts but put a lot of light in a small area.

[complex ed]

Thanks guys for the recommendations and explanations.  I work at a pipeline company and have a few items at my disposal.  I was at wits end trying to decide what to use on my home for alternative power souces.  When I get home around 5:30-6 there is never enough light to work and gas is just too expensive for generator use.  I was actually thinking of purchasing some of those solar powered spotlights that come on automatically and bring them inside when I get home just for working purposes.  I saw a couple on ebay for pretty cheap.  Crazy idea?  Tell me if you know how bright these lights get and if they provide decent working condition.  :-)

[wdyasq]

Ed,

Here is where to find an honest researched answer:

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_lighting.html

There are some here who have posted circuits that will run fluorescent lights on low voltages. You will need to figure out how much power you need, how long you will need it and how you intend to supply it to get good answers.  

No one on this board is clairvoyant even if some of the posters seem to give answers requiring information they do not possess. Many others think they know a lot more than they actually do.

Good Luck,

Ron

[zap]

I think you're on the right track with your solar powered spotlight idea.

My brother has the 3 fixture Malibu Solar Spotlight which is listed on Ebay @ $35 "buy it now".  He picked up his at Home Depot, the first set was $39, then a second which was on clearance @ $29.

I asked him about using the system in your situation and he said it would probably work well.  He has all 3 fixtures mounted about 15' up on a pole and covering about a 15' wide circle.  He said you can read the newspaper under them.

For your situation these might work well, let the panel sit outside all day then bring it inside when you get home, he said it's fairly portable, you'd just need to figure out some way of mounting the lamps, like clamping them onto a tripod or vertical 2x4 or such.  Although this might not be the best fix, it should be a simple, cheap, turnkey setup you could easily try.

You might also want to look into getting an LED headlamp to augment the solar floods for close up work.  If you don't have any, look into purchasing some NiMH rechargeables and a charger for the headlamp and recharge the headlamp batteries at work.

[coldspot]

I have bought two Solar Yard lights,

They are cheaply built

And work the same cheaply.

One has a yellowish LED and gives off

very little usable light.

The other one has a White LED and a "Cracked glass"

globe it fits in, this one gives off a pretty cool

looking light effect but of no real value unless

you remove the globe and then maybe use a reflector

The White LED is very bright and could be of use.

But the White unit also is very finicky, every time I try to show

it to my kids, (They come over on weekends), it refusses to work.

It allways seems to deside to work a few days later allthou??

Someday I'll tear it apart to examine the wires and such.

Ametek 30VDC, I've rigged with old ceiling fan blades, (Three)

Is working very well in low and high winds, but charge control is required

when using these as a battery charger.

[chux0r]

I have a rig I set up to work on my car in the driveway, if I don't feel like running an extension cord from the house.  It's a 250 watt cheapo MSW inverter I bought on eBay, a power strip, and four WalMart spotlights (the metal reflector with the screw-in bulb) and a 150W (40W actual) compact fluorescent bulb in each spotlight.  It runs forever (a couple hours, anyway) plugged into my cigarette lighter socket drawing from my car battery.  I assume if you used such a setup with an honest-to-goodness deep cycle battery, it should run for several forevers.

[drdongle]

Install a second battery in your vehicle, use a "deep cycle" unit. You can wire it so that it is only hooked up to the electrical system when the vehicles ignition switch is in the "run" position. Then when you get home pull out a cable and connect the battery to your lighting in the house. Now you have a simple "self charging" system.

[richhagen]

hmm, sorry to hear about your losses in the storm, but I am glad to hear your self reliant attitude.  

For your situation, it seems to me, that there is much more to think about than for the average installation.  Although it would be easy to throw up something simple and quick, it strikes me that a little thought about how to do it may be in order if it is to truely work when you need it.  

I'm not certain as to your long term plans for the system, but if you plan to expand it over time, then a modular approach may have more long term value.  Economics are also a big variable that determine what is the best approach to help solve the problem.  

Given your location, whatever you build will have to have a method of being secured when the 'next freindly hurricane' comes your way.  I have never seen a wind turbine or a solar panel for that matter that I would expect to survive a major hurricane.  Since your area is apparently subject to storm surge, the batteries and electrical component would have to be protected from that as well.  While you could build a bunker into which your components would be secured during a storm, I am not sure how to protect them from a storm surge, short of a heavy plate steel container with a sealed entrance that is anchored such that it could survive both the winds and the forces upon it from being submerged.  

For a very basic system, I would start with a solar panel(s), a battery, a charge controller, and some flourescent or compact flourescent lighting that would work with the voltage you choose.  That way I could hopefully take down and secure the whole system during a hurricane, and put it back up in short order afterwards.

The voltage I would choose would depend upon my ultimate goals for the system.  If all I ever wanted was a few lights and maybe a small (few hundred watts) inverter, then 12V would be fine.  The more power I planned to draw, in general, the higher the system voltage I would choose.  (wire size needed to move a given amount of power is larger for lower voltages)  12V, 24V, and 48V inverters are fairly common.  Higher voltage such as 120V are also made, but from my experience harder to find.  Also, generally, as the voltage goes up, the shock hazard increases.   12V items such as fans, small appliances and such are commonly available.  For a higher voltage system, you will probably use an inverter and 120V AC appliances.

Rich Hagen

[coldspot]

White solar yard light-

Problem found and solved

The battery holder-

I found out I needed to bend the tabs a bit

for better connection

Now it works as it should