Author Topic: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator  (Read 2168 times)

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SamoaPower

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A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« on: March 27, 2006, 09:29:54 PM »
Although I've built a few wind generators in the past, I'm a newcomer to the axial flux alternator and have spent the last couple of months looking at the design problem. This board has supplied a wealth of information and a lot of opinions, which has helped considerably. Flux has helped me (and others, I'm sure) a lot to understand the electrical side. I have some of the components for a proposed 16' machine, which is to the stage now of needing the alternator and it's mechanical design remain to be done.


I notice that newcomers that want to build a machine are often advised to follow the examples put forth by others and not to think outside the box. I'm afraid I can't fit into that mold. If the traditional, commonly accepted ways don't make good sense to me I'm compelled to look further. Such is the case for the cast-resin stator assembly.


The basic requirements are:



  1. Provide a way to hold the stator coils, subjected to strong magneto-mechanical forces, in a rigid, fixed position.
  2. Allow effective heat dissipation from the coils, which can be considerable, as burned-up stators have testified.
  3. Minimal distortion under higher temperatures.
  4. Impervious to the elements.


Other issues are:


  1. Good electrical insulation.
  2. No metallic elements in the magnetic path.
  3. Reparability.
  4. Reasonable construction and weight.


The cast stator does pretty well for 1, 4, 5, and 6 but is less than satisfactory for the others, and in particular, number 2. Numerous bandaids have been proposed and tried and the success of some has yet to be seen. I think there's a better way.


The problem of coil heat dissipation is one of convection - movement of heat from the coils to the surrounding air. Embedding the coils completely is just the opposite of what needs to be done. As much coil surface as possible needs to be exposed to the air but this is somewhat in conflict with requirement 1.


What we need is a relatively thin (compared to coil thickness) support structure that has sufficient strength and rigidity with the coils inserted centrally and bonded into cutouts in this structure. One material that I believe fits all the requirements is G-10, FR4 fiberglass sheet that is available in a large range of thickness. FR4 is a fire resistant form of G-10. G-10 is amazingly strong and rigid and I suspect that in ¼" thickness, would be sufficient for this purpose even in large machines. It is formed by many layers of glass cloth impregnated with epoxy, that are compressed and heated, forming a dense composite. It's often used in the electrical industry. The down side is that it's fairly expensive, roughly $20/sq ft in ¼". However, when you compare the overall costs to a cast stator with it's resin, fillers, glass cloth, mold materials, etc, it doesn't do badly. Another factor is that it's difficult to machine being hard on cutting edges. A water jet job would be ideal.


Coil construction would be somewhat more demanding, requiring uniformity to fit well in the cutouts. I would make the coils before specifying the cutouts. The coils would also have to be impregnated with a high quality, high temperature insulating varnish and baked to provide good weathering and a rigid structure.


I believe this approach would yield a superior stator with advantages of better heat dissipation, reparability and construction. I intend to use it on my 16' machine.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 09:29:54 PM by (unknown) »

willib

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 03:04:09 PM »
I believe a structurally sound stator can be made with fiberglass  and epoxy, not poured in/on like others have done but placed so that it forms a rigid structure.

lots of air could flow through it and around it..
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 03:04:09 PM by willib »
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Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2006, 03:23:21 PM »
I'd been thinking of making coils out of copper strap (with insulating paint), edge-on to the field, and embedding just the part between the magnets in expoxy, letting the loops be exposed to the air.


Most of the force on the conductor is where the magnets pass over it, and this would be supported.  Some force occurs between the conductors on the remainder, due to the "pinch effect" of the magnetism from the current, which will make the strips try to vibrate as the current cycles.  But the arches of strips would be well supported by the legs, and the force would be a uniform attraction to the neighboring strips rather than something more focussed.  Meanwhile, electrical conductors are good HEAT conductors, too (because the heat is carried by electrons), so the strips would carry the heat out nicely to the exposed "fins".  (Insulation is mainly to avoid corrosion - especially galvanic corrosion - when the strips get wet.)


Should work with round wire, too.  But spacing the wire out so it doesn't rub together from vibrations induced by the current, rub off the paint, and short, might be problematic.  (They manage it with motor windings, though...)

« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 03:23:21 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Chagrin

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2006, 03:39:28 PM »
Has anyone tested the laquer on magnet wire for UV resistance? I think a test would be in order if you're planning on leaving the coils exposed.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 03:39:28 PM by Chagrin »

electrondady1

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 06:47:34 PM »
 stater heat is not a problem for me yet but as i build more powerful geni's  it will be. weather the coils are totaly imbeded in polyester(or a melange of substances to aid in heat disipation) or partialy exposed in the fibreglass substance you propose, it would be an advantage to have a method of drawing cool air into the cavity between rotors and forcing it past the coils. some of the larger rotors being built now have holes cut in the disks and this should help. perhaps a cleverly formed vane could be added to the rotors that would suck/push air into the central cavity and redirect it past the stator surface.

 my own interest is in vawts. with the generator on the ground and perhaps in a hut at the base of the mill i have considered runing tubes of cooling fluid in the stator to eliminate and capture stator heat.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 06:47:34 PM by electrondady1 »

SamoaPower

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2006, 10:24:09 PM »
I've had similar thoughts myself about cooling vanes on the magnet rotors. I don't intend to cast the rotors in resin because I don't think it's necessary and doesn't always work. My proposed rotors will also have holes near the center for air supply and weight savings. The magnets are well spaced so there's plenty of room between them to install curved vanes to get the air  moving toward the outside. I think it could be effective.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 10:24:09 PM by SamoaPower »

SamoaPower

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2006, 10:33:35 PM »
You're right of course and a good point. G-10 has excellent weathering but will eventually (ten years) exhibit the effects of the elements. I think a couple of sprayed coats of UV type polyurethane would be a good idea for the whole stator.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 10:33:35 PM by SamoaPower »

willib

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2006, 10:42:17 PM »
SamoaPower have you got any pix of your varible pitch hub?

i've been waiting ? lol
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 10:42:17 PM by willib »
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SparWeb

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Forced Convection for Stator Cooling
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2006, 12:37:53 PM »
Funny, I've though about roughly the same thing, myself.  I've considered several ways to force air to move through the air gap between stator and rotor on my machine.  I agree that putting vanes on the inner radius of the magnet rotor will cause air to flow outward; if they're curved that will help.  But where does the air come from?  There are two possibilities:


a) Since most air-gap alternators have two gaps, one on each face of the stator, air could be sucked in on one face (the front face), and blown out on the other face.  Unfortunately, I don't think it would be easy to compel air outside the stator to flow into the gap in the first place.


b) Air can come in from the front of the hub.  Usually, I see rotor faces that are closed disks, but in some configurations, they don't have to be.  If air can enter the area at the center of the stator, as a "plenum" so to speak, it can be ejected radially by the vanes on the rotors.  Get the air around the hub, the blades and through the front rotor disk, and you may have a self-cooling alternator.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2006, 12:37:53 PM by SparWeb »
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spinner

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2006, 04:18:26 PM »
just a thought on center-hole venting, if i may:


it snows around here (and sleets too) in the winter.........ice/snow have a nasty habit of finding their way into openings,then expanding/thawing etc


just a thought


thanx

spinner

« Last Edit: March 28, 2006, 04:18:26 PM by spinner »

electrondady1

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2006, 10:22:07 PM »
i would imagine  any impeller induced forced  air cooling system  would only be required at higher rpm. at those speeds it would brobably not require much in order to presserise the central cavity.  something scoopish. or on the other hand sonething that forms low pressure and draws air in.  
« Last Edit: March 28, 2006, 10:22:07 PM by electrondady1 »

SamoaPower

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Re: A Case For the Non-Cast Stator
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2006, 06:07:36 AM »
willib,

Still haven't got it back from the metal spraying shop. Seems their giant compressor broke down and is awaiting parts. They say it could be another month of so. This kind of thing happens often on this island.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2006, 06:07:36 AM by SamoaPower »