Author Topic: Dual Shoe type rotor  (Read 1778 times)

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RogerAS

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Dual Shoe type rotor
« on: July 01, 2006, 10:41:11 PM »
Hey all,


Been screwin around with illustrator again.


Hey Nando, WELL???


Below is a drawing of an idea I have. Somebody else I'm sure has tried this before. If the inside and outside of a modified brake drum were set up like the dual disc Dan & his crew are building, with alternating magnets facing each other, wouldn't this work?


The coils would be suspended from the backing plate, both magnet rotors turn together, and hold the prop (not shown). I have no idea if the configuration has problems I can't see. You're only seeing the alternator face end, as if with xray vision. I can finish out oblique plans if there's interest. My thoughts were that one could keep the coils cooler by opening canted holes in the gap between magnet planes. With an open end, where the coils insert, and air sucking holes up front it would keep things cool. Yeah, I know, rain and other precip might get in there as well. More reason to make the stator assembly very well suited for surviving wetness.


I seems there would be less warping and stresses on the inside of pipe or castings than on discs. Maybe I'm wrong. Jerry is getting great watts from his arc fitted garbogens. This is sortta a hibred of those designs.


Well?





RogerAS

« Last Edit: July 01, 2006, 10:41:11 PM by (unknown) »

A6D9

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2006, 04:59:42 PM »
I am by no means a pro, but i think it looks great.


but i think the hardest part will be gettign the coils in there securely.


but if done right, you might be able to do it without resin.  and that would mean heat may not be as much of an issue

« Last Edit: July 01, 2006, 04:59:42 PM by A6D9 »

kitno455

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2006, 05:28:00 PM »
dont know how you would find it, but there have been at least a couple discussions of this design on the board in the past.


i think it would be hard to set the airgap correctly, with the different rates of expansion of the various parts. you cant change air gap after its built, unlike an axial unit. i also tend to think you will get less cooling than an axial, not more. one of the biggest reasons every car is using at least front disc brakes now, if not front and rear...


allan

« Last Edit: July 01, 2006, 05:28:00 PM by kitno455 »

Flux

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2006, 12:15:05 AM »
The basic idea is fine. Your arrangement looks like single phase but you can make it 3 phase.


You loose the basic simplicity of construction that makes the axial so easy for home construction.


Unless you can machine the bits then you are at the mercy of the various drums that you can find and you need the winding spot on, you can't alter the air gap.


With your dimensions you will not get much output,you would need the inner drum about 10" diameter to have a similar output to 12 " discs.


The worst feature is that the inner magnets would need special care to hold them on.


I think that the stator will be a pig to build, but that is not a criticism of the method.

Flux

« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 12:15:05 AM by Flux »

jimovonz

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2006, 03:56:02 AM »
I started something similar (a bit larger...) here: http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/1/20/235641/582. I intend to finish it at some stage, though I have done away with the microwave magnet idea. I have over 200 57x42x8mm neos that are earmarked for the job. The construction and support of the stator are my main concern at this point. I'm leaning towards overlapped coils + fibreglass + epoxy. The 'active' part of my stator is approx 7" wide but there is plenty of room for additional re-inforcement on the inner and outer edges of the cylinder it forms. I will probably look at some form of stainless banding to help secure the inner magnets to the brake drum.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 03:56:02 AM by jimovonz »

wooferhound

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 10:52:39 AM »
I understand that this is called a

Radial Flux Generator

http://www.fieldlines.com/?op=search&offset=0&old_count=30&type=story&section=&s
tring=radial+flux&search=Search&count=30

« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 10:52:39 AM by wooferhound »

willib

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2006, 09:14:38 PM »
Jim i cant find your hall effect ammeter ?

the one with the wire wrapped around a toroid which was ground out to fit the hall effect sensor?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 09:14:38 PM by willib »
Carpe Ventum (Seize the Wind)

jimovonz

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2006, 11:05:43 PM »
Hey Willib, it is embedded in the story about my turbine that crashed...

http://www.fieldlines.com/comments/2006/2/27/0479/09688/20#20

I made another two very similar just yesterday!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 11:05:43 PM by jimovonz »

powerbuoy

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2006, 05:38:53 AM »
I recently saw an article in Design news on a drum style servo motor. Looked very similar...
« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 05:38:53 AM by powerbuoy »

SparWeb

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Re: Dual Shoe type rotor
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2006, 10:22:59 PM »
Roger, I think you should pursue this.  I don't know if you already have parts in mind, but if you look for auto brake drums, you can find them 12" in diameter, and up.

Being able to turn down the rotors isn't the only way to adjust the "air gap" - you could use shims; wrap a steel sheet around either drum to close the gap if necessary.  Start out with a wide gap and close it up as necessary.  A stainless steel band around the inner ring of magnets would hold them on easily, and allow disassembly to adjust air gap, as already mentioned.

Holding the coils would require a disk with the coils standing up, not embedded in plane with it... not as efficient structurally, but you could do it.  Alternatively, you could get a large PVC/ABS drainage tube, and cut holes in it.  At a 10-12" diameter, the wall of the tube might be about 1/2", giving you lots of room for wire.  There is probably a temperature penalty, so be mindful of the cooling, as others have noticed.  Otherwise, your main problem will be weight - this will be heavy compared to an axial flux of equal electrical performance, IMHO.


BTW, cool graphic.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 10:22:59 PM by SparWeb »
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