another oddball project

[pepa]

I am about ready to start putting together a new design generator that I have been designing and almost every  day someone post something about heat buildup in the stators. A little background on my knowledge of ceramics production. My mother-in-law owned and operated a good size ceramic shop and taught classes in this field, her husband, my older brother (long story) was a very good mould maker and teacher. He taught me the art and I also had the opportunity to study mould making under the instructions of a man who worked for Dupont at the savanna river nechular plant as master mould maker for their machining division. I was able to learn a lot of his methods and became sufficient at it. The piece that is being made can be fired to a hardness that will equal most materials (the space shuttle uses them for reentry). With known dimensions and spacing I can make one to any size or shape with cutouts for coils and bolt holes as well as center hole. The only problem I can see is that there will have to be a small solid area between coils and the thickness outside the rotors will have to be thicker than normal... Benefits would be, would help with heat dissipation. Give strength for bolt areas and help keep weather from direct contact with magnets. A thin amount of epoxy to secure the coils and the entire center of the stator can be left off if there is enough room at the upper part of the coils to allow for epoxy to secure the coils epically if I use the flat coil ribbon which will be self supporting after I embed it in epoxy. Round wire coil will probably work as well. This design should eliminate all heating problems with heat dissipation by the none warping and heat dissipation of the ceramics material. My mother-in-law and brother died within one month of each other and I now have most of the equipment and moulds. All comments welcome. Thanks pepa.

[A6D9]

I"m not a pro at ceramics?

But correct me if I"m wrong.

don;t we want to take the heat out of the coils and dissipate it, not let it all stay in the coil.

I understand that ceramics don;t absorbe heat but more reflect it.

Or am i completely wrogn here?

[DanG]

What comes to mind on first thought..

(1) thin like tableware china in center detail area

(2) much thicker outer rotor 'crash' ring

(2) doughnut or ovoid coil chambers

(3) coils still potted w/ ? to prevent vibration damage

(4) shark gill lattice interconnecting coil chambers as cooling fins

(5) thick rubber bushing mountings for expansion-contraction cycles

Though I wonder if the mold would be better utilized as a vacuum mold for high temperature sheet plastic forming..

[Slingshot]

I believe that the temparature required to fire ceramic will ruin any magnet.

[Norm]

   We only want to cool the coils so they don't

burn the insulation and short circuit the coils

...in this case the copper wires could be molten

copper and they still wouldn't short out..

Right?

   Ceramics is neat stuff if you know how to

work with it.

   That's the trouble with internal combustion

engines why they're so inefficient you have to

get rid of 90% of the heat produced or the engine

would get red hot and melt...if they could run that long...now if it were made of ceramic...

                ( :>) Norm.

[Chagrin]

You want to keep the coils cool not only to prevent their "burning up" but also to increase their efficiency. The resistance of copper wire increases by .4% for

each degree (Celsius) increase in temperature.

[nothing to lose]

I agree but he probably is not planning to fire the magnets, at least I hope not.

Maybe in much thicker sections it's alot stronger but I thought ceramics break fairly easy. I would not want to drop my stator and have it shatter like a kitchen plate.

I geuss a toilet is porcilain and pretty strong though.

 The water tank gets cold kinda fast from the fresh water inside after flushing it, causes them to sweat alot on a hot humid day, so maybe ceramics conduct or lose heat better than I think also?

[pepa]

A6d9, ceremac material does a job by what additives are put in the slip as it is being mixed but generally all ceremacs will transfer heat. this is exactually what you wont to do, move the heat that the coils generate to the outside where it will be disipated into the air. heat moves to cold and the ceremac will always be colder than the copper coils as they produce electric current. a ceremac stove top is a perfect example of heat transfer. Norm, the coil will not be afected by the ceremac except that it should stay a lot cooler than being poured in a solid mass. if the blades run away, the coils will overhead and short out as normal, the ceremac just gives a higher cooling so the margin of time that a coil would overheat will be longer. cooling fins could be molded into the outer rim to add extra cooling area. btw Norm, have you ever worked on hilton head island? chagrin, i think the ceremac will keep the coil cooler and more efficent. Dan B. all good ideas. this is just one of my hair brain ideas. Slingshot, it would. Nothing to lose, it would take a lot of force to break a 1/2" piece of ceremac that has been fired properly. i believe they are used in some forms of body armor, stringer than steel. cemerac starts with a basic potters clay and additives are used to improve the slip(liquid clay) for different use, from very fragule baby dolls to bullet stopping properties. thanks for all of your comments. pepa

[elvin1949]

 Back in the 70's i read an articale in popular mechanic's about a ceramic car engine.It made

as much power as a 302 ford BUT it had no cooling system.It was a 2 cyl. engine.

 That is all i remember right now.

later

elvin

PS It was in a ford granada.

[A6D9]

very good info, thanx pepa and all who have tought me a bit about ceramics.

I say pepa.  go for it,  try  learn from it.  

what fun is life if we allways ask what if?  lol

good luck friend

[pepa]

thanks for the reply Darren. pepa

[pepa]

thanks elvin, i did not know that. pepa

[Bruce S]

pepa;

  Been following this thread.

1. ) next time I'm over at Isle of Palms, I'll let you know and maybe I can get a hands on look at your diesel & WVO setup?
   
2. )Mother retired to Charleston :-)
   
3. )Since you have this vast knowledge of ceramics , I was wondering if you would be able to fire the mold so that the coils have a slight lip they would be able to slide into as well as the mags.? Also I have noticed that when I "play" with the ceramics heater/cooling electronics that when I use ceramics fins on the back they seem to wick better, but I have to make sure there is good adheshion by using more than normal paste. I'm thinking thin fins fired into the mold would be even better , thoughts?
   
   

Ford back in the muscle car days actually built a V8 out of ceramic and even showed it on tele back during the first oil embargo and touted it as being the next best thing as it's mpg was nearly double to 10/mpg their current models were getting.

I look forward to seeing some of the fired molds.

Cheers

Bruce S

 

[pepa]

hi Bruce, having you come by would be GERAT, i have two extra bedrooms if you need them for you and yours, let me know. any time you increase the surface area of a heat transfer material, you will shed more heat and things will stay cooler. the moulds are for pouring the slip (liquid mixed clay) into to form the shape of the piece you are making. the mould seperate into two or more pieces to extract the greenware after the mould has sucked the warter from the piece and it is in a hard but fragile state and has to be handled very carefully. the greenware is cleaned of any seam lines and improfections and allowed to dry for a period of time then the piece is put in the kild and fired into buisk with the first firing. after that the work and firing will depend on what you wont to do with the piece you are making and the mould can be used to make another piece of ceremac exacly as the first. sorry about the lesson but i am a motor mouth at times. BTW, you will probaly have nightmares after clawing your way through my shop. to make a mould you have to have a existing piece or make your own with modeling clay, it can be any shape that you want as long as the mould can be made to seperate, to extract the piece. pepa

[Bruce S]

Pepa;

 Thanks for the invite, I bring my tool/toys; Plus all the NiCds you could ever handle , if you don't mind them.

Nightmares? no way more like will be a kid in a candy shop ;-]

This very close to being similar to making sand molds for forgeing aluminimum.

I think it's the lost form or burning oil method.

Can be any shape so long as it can be broken down into a two part or more mold.

Cheers!

Bruce S

BTW: what town is close to your homestead?

[Bruce S]

Pepa;

  Forgot about the Frapper map. I can find you pretty easy.

I usually take the Aken route to Charleston, why prettier and just as fast as the interstate.

Bruce S

[coldspot]

This is a great idea,

A stator that you would just have to pop your coils into and set them with some glue, after hooking them all together that is.

Would made a great starter stator kit I'd say!

Heck, sign me up for one, just usual 12/9 set-up.

I'd have to use steel rotors for flux reasons of course.

Hey-!!!

Maybe a split stator?

drop all the coils onto one side and hook them up,

a little hi-temp RV stuff for setting them and then cover with other half of stator and when mounting it up the bolts would also keep them together.

LOL, great fun here tonight!!!!

DO IT!!!!!!!!!

I want one

Please???



l8r

 

[pepa]

hi Bruce, hampton is about eleven miles out. the nearest big town is beaufort about 30mi. but in the wrong direction from aiken, i live out side a little cross roads whistle stop named collens. will meet you in hampton and bring you in anytime, it is about seven miles to interstate 95 from here if you come that way, looking forward to youe visit when ever you can make it. pepa

[pepa]

hi coldspot, at the present i am snowed under wirh other projects but, i will check with my slip suppier to make shure there is nothing in the formulia that would interfer with flux passage and order a few gallons to play with. i like the idea of your split stater and it can be done. i will have to actually make the first half of one for a form to make the mould and then i can turn out a lot of them with the same mould. this is just an idea at this time but it will need to be tested and you can test the first one for shipping cost. pepa.

[coldspot]

pepa-

I really do think you are on to a GREAT

idea here.

Take your time and let me know when it's

getting close, so I can get the magnets and stuff

ready on my end.

Yes, I think the split idea was a pretty good one

for a newby like me. lol ....  

I quess it is like I hear from a lot of poeple,

"Must Be Good to Be  Lucky".

(A lot last weekend for my Archery hunting Deer trip, Only my 2nd year and One Arrow was all I needed to hang a two point mule deer in freezer!!! LOL).



Lucky......

Maybe a bit.

Try harder,  ......

Darn right!

Think about it to much, ........

Heck yes!

If it wasn't done the hard way I was never involved!!!

LOL

Keep on with the thinking in new ways!!!!!

 

[pepa]

hi coldspot, glad to hear about the sucessful hunt. i have a nice psi and hunted several hunts with it but no luck so far. my wife gave me a real nice trained hunting horse because i can't walk like i used to so this season i will be hunting with a scoped 150# cross bow (legel if you are over 65) from the top of a horse. we have a six month season in this state, the whitetails raise like rabbits in this semi-tropical climate and the farmers will let you hunt their land. i need the size magnets and coil shape that you would like to use or you will have to live with what i come up with. i have used the 1/2/1/2 N50 on my last two 12/9 alternators with a slight wedge shape coil and a 5/8 air gap using 10"rotors, does that sound like something you want for your 12/9? my new machine will use the same setup but it will be shaped a little different. the cemerac stater will fit the standard alternator. you will also need the stator in hand before you build the mounting brackets for it to line up bolt holes. pepa.

[coldspot]

Hi

pepa-

"will have to live with what i come up with."

I'd be more than happy to use what ever you do

come up with!



All the way 's

I do have a trailer hub I'd like to use maybe,

(new in box missing only the axle shaft)

PSI, yep, thats the brand of compound I had given

to me for looking over a jet boat for a guy.

Old, low level, beginer type he said.

After I got it, it only needed the crazy stuff pulled off it, (fancy sights and such).

I just started to use it like a recurve,

pull it back, (it is a bit easyer to hold than my better recurves), then look at target,

let it fly. I quess I shoot "instinctive",

they say. No need for the fancy stuff if you

just do what works for you, bare fingers and

faith in my arrows.

I'll be building some more hand carved ones

for myself this winter, (Did four, one for each kid last winter), would like to maybe use self made

bow,arrows and flintknapped heads next time.

(then I'll see how lucky I am, lol).

CrossBows are cool, wish I had a big and bad one,

only have a couple of toy type pistol ones,

but did manage to mod one enough to pull a bit

 over #100 Lbs and people like to stay way back when I play with it, LOL.

White tails, a bit small I'd say.

Have shot one with muzzle loader and the

little fifty flipped it end over end.

was pretty good eating.

So when ever you get going, let me know what

I'll need.

Thanks

[pepa]

ok coldspot i will work everything out when i have time. that should have been pse on the name of the bow, nice flat shooting fifty yd. bow. this is a light fixture i made from some local whitetail antlers that we have bagged. pepa.

[coldspot]

pepa-

Cool, just let me know

Very nice light!

Those are cf's, right? lol!

Yep, thinking, PSE is the brand, made in Wyoming

I'd love to put up a pic. of last weekend.

But, must have left camera at cabin or in girlfriends truck.

Have searched high and low but it didn't

make it home with me.



Wood I've used for self bows

"Rattan"

It's like Bambo but not hollow

Have a great day/Weekend!!

PS:

I'm headed to cut up deer this morning.

Girlfriends dad also got one I quess,

don't know if bow or cross was used.

l8r