Author Topic: Need Input from the Experts  (Read 1335 times)

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motoman465

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Need Input from the Experts
« on: November 04, 2006, 07:31:33 PM »
Hey ya'll,


I need some input from the experts.  I am having a friend make me two small steel discs in metal shop.  They will be 3.5" in diameter and have an 1/8" lip around the outside and also the center hole.  I made up a quick little diagram of what I am thinking about doing.  I know this won't make much power, but I have to work with what I have right now.  The picture is a little fuzzy, still not too good with resizing photos.  I was thinking of using using 8 of my 1/2" x 1/8" disc neos and making small coils to make it three phase.  If you can make it the picture I would love any input!  Thanks!


Todd

« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 07:31:33 PM by (unknown) »

Titantornado

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2006, 01:27:02 PM »


If I'm looking at this right, you have 8 magnets, and 3 phases with 6 coils per phase.  From that, I'd say it isn't going to work.  The magnets are not arranged to work in sync with the coil strings in each phase.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 01:27:02 PM by Titantornado »

Titantornado

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2006, 02:02:06 PM »
Looking at it a bit more, with your 8 magnets, you can make a working design with a total of 12 coils, (4 coils per phase) rather than 18.  This would give the best performance for the given magnets, as each coil of a phase would be sync'd to every equal pole of the available magnets.  Drawing over your drawing, note how the magnets align to each phase:

« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 02:02:06 PM by Titantornado »

motoman465

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2006, 02:10:21 PM »
Thanks, Titan!  I knew I could count on the members of this forum for some great advise!  As soon as my friend gets those two discs to me I am going to start on this.  Thanks, again!


Todd

« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 02:10:21 PM by motoman465 »

vawtman

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2006, 04:06:53 PM »
That will be a little cutie mojoman.You will need to design the stator very thin maybe 1/4 in. Should be a fun learning tool.


 Carry on

« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 04:06:53 PM by vawtman »

motoman465

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2006, 04:09:39 PM »
I bought the magnets before I knew anything(not that I know a whole lot more now)about building an alternator.  I figure I will do something with the magnets I have instead of just having them stacked up on the frig.  It should be fun, even if I can only light a small bulb or something.  LOL!


Todd

« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 04:09:39 PM by motoman465 »

willib

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2006, 06:15:49 PM »
start looking for a couple old hard drives(5-1/4") or an old vcr

the motors make great bearings for mini gens

and with the hard drive you get the blade mount as a bonus!!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 06:15:49 PM by willib »
Carpe Ventum (Seize the Wind)

Flux

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2006, 01:37:45 AM »
This looks a bit odd to me.


You would make life much simpler to keep to 8 magnets with 6 coils.


If you must use 12 coils then it should be a winding with overlapped coils. Doing a 12 coil winding with single layer will be very poor and you are in the region where perfect will be very poor and anything less will be useless.


You may be down in the size region where the gain from 3 phase may not be worth the trouble. 8 coil single phase may be as good.


Keep the speed well up at such small diameter.

Flux

« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 01:37:45 AM by Flux »

finnsawyer

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2006, 10:04:32 AM »
This is getting close to my alternator design.  But he would need to move the magnets (and coils) farther apart.  With the red coils over the north poles as shown, the blue coils should just be at the edge of the following south pole with the green coils between that south pole and the next north pole.  The coils would then be connected in series (single phase).  I personally feel this would give better performance, at the least a lower cut-in rpm.  If he has a lot of the magnets he might consider it in the future.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 10:04:32 AM by finnsawyer »

finnsawyer

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Re: Need Input from the Experts
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2006, 08:29:14 AM »
I suppose I should point out that this is not a true three phase alternator design.  If the coils move clockwise over the magnets, the red phase will generate a negative voltage pulse due to the decreasing positive flux through the red coils, the blue phase will generate a negative voltage due to the increasing magnitude of the negative flux through the blue coils, and the green phase will generate a positive voltage due to the decreasing magnitude of the negative flux through the green coils (a negative times a negative gives a positive in this case).  If one connects the three phases in series,  the voltages from the blue and green phases will nearly cancel.  Since the magnitude of the flux through the blue coils increases faster than the magnitude of the flux through the green coils decreases, the magnitude of the voltage from the blue phase will be larger than that of the green phase resulting in a net negative voltage.  This voltage will add to that from the red phase resulting in a net negative voltage when all three phases are connected in series.  There will be a net voltage waveform when the three phases are connected in series no matter how they are connected.  A true three phase alternator will always have zero voltage when the phases are connected in series.  That is what makes possible the delta configuration for the three phase alternator.  So, this would not be the most effective use of the magnets.  This design suffers from the same issues as the (rotating) single magnet three coil design.  
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 08:29:14 AM by finnsawyer »