Hello friends

[ghurd]

I'm not sure its fair to compare cultures if one lets babies defecate on the side walk as the normal accepted practice.

Being near Cleveland, where the Cuyahoga river actually caught on fire, I would say We are going the other way from Them. Things are better now.

However, maybe it is because the factories that were here... now are there.

G-

[zap]

It's interesting to note that the US government no longer prefers the term "global warming" and now would rather use the term "climate change".  OF COURSE THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING!  Chances are the climate has been changing from day one and there has never been two days in the whole history of earth that have had the exact same climate.

What bothers me about global warming, as it is being discussed here, are all of the theories that are bandied about as fact.  That fact that the CO2 level is higher now than it's been in over 600,000 years isn't a fact at all, even though it's stated as one... it's a theory. Why?  Because someone had a THEORY that they could study core samples from ice sheets, ocean sediment, peat bogs, etc. to provide a record of CO2 levels. It does provide a high PROBABILITY of proving that the theory is correct, but it's still doesn't prove it to be a fact.

Time for an example.

A man has walked the same path through the mountains everyday for the last forty years and everyday has stopped at the same tree in the mountains and done 15 pull-ups on one of it's branches.  One day he finds the tree has fallen to the ground, branches smashed and roots exposed.  He sees a boulder sitting on the tree and notices an outcrop of rock uphill of the tree made of the same type of rock as the boulder.  He theorizes that the boulder fell from the outcrop and knocked the tree over, pinning it to the ground.  What's the probability that his theory is correct? Somewhere in the vicinity of 99.9998%?

He finds a new tree to do his pull-ups and meets a woman who's been using that tree for years to do her pull-ups.  The man explains about his old tree having been knocked down by the boulder as the reason for using this new tree.  The woman tells the man he's wrong and says she saw what happened and the boulder didn't knock the tree over.  She explains that for some reason the tree just fell and shook the ground enough to loosen the boulder causing it to fall down onto the already fallen tree.  Now the mans theory is 100% incorrect.

The moral of the story?  Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

[motoman465]

I was wondering about how they could tell us what the CO2 levels were even before anybody knew what CO2 was.  I love the moral of the story!

Todd

[jimjjnn]

Just another thought.

Saw a program on the Earths magnetic field. It's weakening and getting ready to change again. The Scientist are predicting that there will be major climate change for approximately 3000 years as the poles change due to the Suns radiation being able to get more radiation to the Earth.

Anyone else see that?

[electrondady1]

danb,

thanks for speaking out.

as an individual, the owner of otherpower and as the host of the forum , i beleave you have come down on the right side of history.

we can't change the things that happened back "then". we can only change the future.

so if we are and intelegent spiecies it would make more sense that we work towards making our world a lush and healhty place.

the change from short term to long term thinking has got to be the way out for us.

some times to avoid triping over stuff it's better to stop and realy clean up the "shop"

[Titantornado]

>  Saw a program on the Earths magnetic field. It's

>  weakening and getting ready to change again. The

>  Scientist are predicting that there will be major

>  climate change for approximately 3000 years as

>  the poles change due to the Suns radiation being

>  able to get more radiation to the Earth.

I didn't see that, but I put it right up there with the "California is going to fall into the ocean" thing everyone was yelling about a decade or two ago.  It's true enough, but everyone always fails to mention it will take millions of years.

As PHinker pointed out, people like to make themselves feel more significant by manifesting ideas that events of their lifetimes' are the critical turning-point. "Scientists" like to make radical predictions in order to get more funding. Example: Just look at the "Pluto isn't a planet anymore" thing, to boost media attention.  Not long before then, they were thinking about labeling one of Pluto's moons as a planet.  They're just fishing for an angle to boost attention and financing.  Sad really.  They've only managed to discredit themselves, in my eyes.

Anyhow, as an (ex)pilot, I can tell you that figuring for magnetic declination is a daily practice when flight planning.  It doesn't change all that much.  Perhaps it will invert some day, but don't expect it to happen in your lifetime. (or your children's, or your grandchildren's, and so on)

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!!   :~\   or not.

[zap]

"Anyhow, as an (ex)pilot, I can tell you..."

I didn't know there were (ex)pilots, I always thought it was in the same vein as an alcoholic...once you quit, you just became a recovering one. : )

[Titantornado]

True enough.  I still look up every time I hear an engine!  ;o)

[zap]

hehe, I know precisely how you feel Rod!

[motoman465]

This has been very informative to me as many people have laid out very convincing arguments.  I just finished watching "An Inconvenient Truth".  WOW!  Very powerful and I think everyone should see it.  After you do, then you can make up your mind on this issue.  Thanks!

Todd