First Entry

[Viento Amable]

The Place


A 100-acre sheep and goat farm in Southeastern Ohio.  Thirty acres are dead-flat hayfields.  The remaining 70 acres are fairly steep hills covered with multi floral rose bushes and osage orange trees -- both plants are failed government experiments in "living fences."

The Potential


Wind


The wind moves well through the hayfields except for the summer months.  However, the wind truly whistles on the hill tops, which are 200 to 250 feet higher than the surrounding valleys.  The hill tops are breezy even in the summer months.  I'll talk more about the wind later.


Water


There is a creek/stream/river that meanders year round through the hayfields.  The reason I refer to it as a creek/stream/river is because the depth varies from 3 inches to 8 ½ feet.  The hills have three year round springs, possibly more.  The vegetation is so thick I haven't been able to explore all parts of the hills.


Sun


The sun does shine here; well okay, maybe half the time.  It's not as good as say the New Mexico/Arizona area, but not as bad as the Pacific Northwest.  We're talking maybe 5 ½ hours/day of sunlight strong enough to generate usable power during the summer -- half that in the winter.

The Goal


To turn this farm into a profitable enterprise, the hills have to be converted into pastures.  Livestock (namely goat, sheep and pigs) are well able up to the task of clearing the hills, but they'll need water to do it.  My end of the job is to provide the fencing and water for the animals, which is about 125 head right now and will be 250 head by this time next year.  Eventually, I'll need a water system capable handling up to 750 head for short periods of time and 500 head as the norm.

The average water usage (on my farm) is about one gallon per day per head.  A times their consumption rises as high as 2.5 gallons/day/head, and other times as low as 1 quart/day/head -- depending on whether they're eating lush grass or dry hay.

The Idea


I'd like to put a plastic water tank atop the highest hill and let gravity feed several water troughs fitted with float valves.  A tank large enough to supply 250 head a gallon/day/head for 90 days (the summer) would be in the 25,000 gallon range.  Even assuming I could afford a tank this large, I would not be able to transport it to the top of the hill.  A 2,500-gallon tank is more in line with my price range and handling capability.

Creek/River/Stream


To supply 250 gallons of water per day, I'll have to get the water from either the creek/stream/river or the springs or both.

The creek/river/stream certainly has enough water running through it to supply the need.  The challenge is raising it up 250 feet to the tank atop the hill.  Working out the pounds per square inch (psi) math, I reckon I'll need a pump capable of producing at least 108 psi.  Surfing around, I see folks in the pump business talk about "total head" -- or the elevation the pump can push and suck up water.  Because atmospheric pressure is a player, even very good pumps are only able to suck up water up 30 feet.  Most pumps fall well short of that.

I'm of the opinion that even a cursory cost-benefit analysis would reveal an expenditure for such an excellent device would prove rather prohibitive.  In other words, I'd bet anything a pump that stinkin' good would cost me my left nut to buy, operate and maintain.

So moving water from the creek/stream/river will have to be done in stages.  I've priced a handful of 12-volt DC pumps (and their AC equivalents) and most are in the $50 to $150 range.  The psi ratings are 45 psi (12vdc) to 100 psi (115vac).  That means two or three stages where the water is pumped from tank to tank up the hill.  I'd rather it be two stages:  Fewer pumps, fewer headaches.  Since life isn't so gracious, I'll calculate for both and expect the worst.

The Springs & Ram Pumps


My first brainstorming thoughts about using the springs to fill a tank atop the hill were about hydraulic ram pumps.  The stumbling block with these magnificent contraptions is water flow.  My research tells me I need a minimum of two gallons/minute to force the impetus valve to operate properly.  Sure, I realize there are several factors involved, but after the calculator cools off, the bottomline still is dependent upon flow.  Kinectic energy runs a ram pump.  No momentum, no pumping.  The three springs get up to the needed flow rate in mid-December and may keep it up until mid-April.

I'm in the process of building three ram pumps now.  I purchased three brass inline water check valves via eBay -- one 1-inch and two ¾-inch valves.  I've turned them into impetus valves by removing the small spring inside and reversing the direction of the water flow.  None of the pumps are fully assembled yet.  I'm still scrounging up some parts.  So naturally, I haven't tested my version of the ram pump, but I will.

From April to December, I live with springs feeding water troughs downhill without the ram pushing a percentage to the tank atop the hill.

Supply Power To The Electric Pumps



The best location for a wind turbine is the worst location for a water pump.  So suppose I'll locate the wind turbines atop the hills; place the pumps where they'll perform their best; and work out the power transmission problems.  As I'm not an electrical engineer, this won't be a trivial matter for me.  I've read enough, often enough, that I'm convinced I don't want to attempt a DC circuit from the wind turbines to the water pumps - a distance that could range from 500 to 2,500 feet.  That leaves AC, but will the wild AC from the turbines transmit well?  I dunno, so I have yet another research project.

Pump Power Consumption



The 12vdc pump I've been eyeballing has an advertised 1.6 gpm rate.  Being a conservative type, I'll assume I'll see 0.8 gpm.  To pump 250 gallons/day, the pump will have to run 312.5 minutes or 5.5 hours (rounding conservatively.)  The pump is supposed to consume from 3 to 7 amps.  Taking the high number, the pump will require 38.5 amp-hours/day.  I'll need to run three pumps so now we're up to 115.5 amp-hours/day or, multiplying by 12 volts, 1,386 watt-hours/day.  Conservative rounding for inefficiencies in the system brings me to 2 kilowatt-hours/day, maybe more.

The 115vac pump that has my eye is rated for .91 gpm at 100 psi, using .95 amps.  Hmm ... that's two stages instead of three, saving me the cost of a pump & a tank.  Conservative thinking tells me to use 0.5 gpm so the pumps will run for 500 minutes or 8.5 hours per day.  Simplifying the math a bit, that's 8.5 amp-hours/pump/day or 17 amp-hours/day total.  Multiplying 17 amp-hours times 115 volts comes to 1,955 watt-hours/day.  Factoring in losses for the wire, inverters, etc. ... I'll make my wild-ass guess at 2.75 kilowatt-hours/day.

Okay, to be assured I'll have enough power for this livestock water project, I'm going to want a renewable energy system capable of generating 3 kilowatt-hours of electricity per day in a consistent and reliable way.  Is there even that much power to be harvested or am I on a pipe dream?

Random Thoughts About Generating Power



Using all potential sources of energy is the goal, but realistically my ambition, engineering skills and finances limit me to one project at a time.  So I plan to start with wind, move on to solar and finish up with hydro (with the exception of the ram pumps.)

Harnessing The Wind


On my hilltops, the wind velocities and frequency breaks down like this:

Speed                Frequency


< 5 mph              10 percent


·5 to 10 mph         50 percent


·10 to 15 mph        25 percent


·15 to 20 mph        10 percent


> 20 mph             5 percent

With this data and my goal, I'm inclined to consider harnessing winds in 5 to 15 mph range, start furling at 16 mph and strive to be completely furled in winds 21 mph and faster.

My plan is counter to many respected and experienced folk, but to store the power gained in winds I'll see maybe 30 percent of time will take an expensive array of batteries, yes?  That expensive array of batteries will need constant maintenance, yes?  That expensive array of batteries will eventually need to be replaced, yes?  I cannot see the sense in it, but I'm humble enough and open enough to listen to opposing opinions.

The Theoretical Turbine



Using what I've learned from www.otherpower.com and www.fieldlines.com, I'm confident I can build an 8-foot turbine with maybe 12.5 to 17.5 percent efficiency.  Okay, if my math is right I can expect the following:

                                       Watt-Hours Per Day


                             5 mph   6.25 mph   7.5 mph   11.25 mph   15 mph


Theoretical Power Available   747     1,465      2,520     8,517      20,159


The Betz Limit                442       868      1,493     5,047      11,946


A 17.5% Efficient Turbine     131       256        441     1,491       3,528


A 15% Efficient Turbine       112       220        378     1,278       3,024


A 12.5% Efficient Turbine      93       183        315     1,065       2,520

To meet the power needs of the water system, it seems to me that I'll need to build 7 to 10 turbines.  Whew!  That's a lot!

Going Bigger


Larger turbines maybe the more logical course of action.  Even so, my gut feeling is that I'd be in over my head.  Right now, I feel more comfortable manufacturing 8 footers than say 12, 16 or 20 footers.  It just feels safer so I believe that's what I'll do.

The Blades



For $20, I bought a 10-foot, 4-inch, schedule 40 PVC pipe.  Using the info I've read (and reread several times) about ZubWoofers, I'm about to slice & dice to get a two sets of eight-foot ZubWoofer PVC blades.  I'll use the 2-foot scrap to beef up the hub section a tad bit.

Designing A Generator To Match The Blades



I have 24 1-inch x 0.5-inch, N42-grade, neodymium disk magnets.  I also have 400 feet of 18-gauge magnet wire.  I think I can work up a duel-rotor, 12-pole, 9-coil generator.  With 21 feet of wire per coil, I think that works out to 150 - 155 turns.  The specs on the N42 was 12,900 guass.  Another wild-ass guess gives me 5 tsr or about 125 rpm in 7.5-mph winds.  Wired in star, my math tells me I'm 24 plus volts at 13 - 18 amps, depending upon the efficiency of the turbine.  Of course, this pig is hypothetical.  Once it's built, we'll see what the real world looks like.

Humble


Ladies and gents, trust me when I say this.  I have a thick skin so don't stand on ceremony.  Let me have it if you feel I'm off base.  I short of telling to plug the whole thing into the grid and forget about it, I'll listen.

[willib]

i only got half way through PUMP POWER CONSUMPTION,and i have to ask

Is there a reason that the water HAS to be stored at the top of the hill?

i dont live on a farm , but sheep move around dont they?

i mean unless its for crops , it really dosnt HAVE to be stored at the top of the hill?

what about water-pumping windmills?

[tecker]

Having trouble diving in with both feet I see . Should have a good idea of what you want ,That's a good plan . The botom line is is around 500 dollars less if you got skills and more if you nead help.

[Norm]

windmills at the top running air compressor

air motor at bottom of the hill running water

pump about 12 gallon of water per hr.  24/7?

       ( :>) Norm

[Viento Amable]

Why Pump To The Top


My thought was to get the water up there and let gravity "pump" the water to all the other areas of the hill pastures vice using electrical pumps.  Though it's a lot of work getting the water up there, I think it'd be more getting all that water out to all the troughs.  Dunno for sure, let me work on the math for a while.


They Do And They Don't Move


Livestock tend to "hang around" the water, especially when forage is plentiful.  They'll go as far as the drink and groceries are and not much farther.  Livestock animals are terribly efficient, or lazy - depends on your point of view.  The more steps they take from the water, the more they have make on the way back.  If they have water available every 100 to 200 feet, they'll range farther and get fatter, faster.  Small side note:  there are things that influence their movement too: shade trees, coyotes, weather, "scary places" etc.


The Other Kind Of Mill


The water-pumping mills I've seen were in the Great Plains and Southwest.  Basically, many blades attached to a geared-down shaft, which runs a cam connected to a piston pump.  New mills of this kind are at least as expensive as a the type that generate electricity.  I haven't found used mills people are willing to part with.  If they are it because the expense in repairing it is as much as a new mill.  Still, I haven't stopped looking. The other thing that has me balking is that by design water-pumping mills have to be where the water is, and in my case, that isn't where the best wind is.


Viento

[ghurd]

What county?

G-

[zap]

Maybe even forgo the air motor and use a 'bubbler' system?

http://www.airliftech.com/

Something like this seems as though it could be a 'DIY' project.

[Viento Amable]

I like to poke around to see how deep and fast the water is before wading in :-) Some folks talk things out; I tend to write out my thoughts. Bottomline: Yeah, I posted it in my diary because I'm not sure of myself and I wanted to bounce everything off folks who may be interested.

Viento

[Viento Amable]

Noble County, five miles north of Summerfield.  My farm borders a place called "the mile stretch" because it's the only straight, flat part of State Road 513.

[Viento Amable]

I think I know how this mill works.  Instead of a generator, the blades turn an air compressor.  The compressor pressurizes the air well forcing the water to run up a pipe.  How don't see how I would I get this to work with the creek or a spring?

Viento

[zap]

"No hay mal que por bien no venga"

Translation: There is not bad from which good doesn't come

Not sure I agree with it but the saying is much older than I so tis most likely true.

"Livestock animals are terribly efficient, or lazy - depends on your point of view."

I've been called lazy, both to my face and from behind.  My Dad, among others, calls me a bum.  I personally prefer to say "I'm between jobs".

I think from this point forward I'll tell people "I'm not lazy, I'm just terribly efficient".  It seems to have a "greener" feel to it.

Viento welcome to the board!

[zap]

You're thoughts on it's workings are correct. (I'm no expert)

To make this work in your situation, with a creek or spring, it would require a pit or sump in order to gain a "head" below water level.  The higher 'up' and the further 'away' you need to pump, then the further 'down' the pit/sump would need to be.

[Viento Amable]

Okay, I admit this idea blew me away. So we're talking about a turbine with lots of blades to get the high torque needed to turn a compressor.  Power transmission is simplified: long air hoses.  An air motor turns a pump or the air is somehow used to pump the water directly?  Hmm ... fewer parts, simplier solution -- I dig it.  I'll start scrounging around for plans and parts.  May I drop you line if I run to a snag along the way?

Viento

[Viento Amable]

Anglophones have a similar saying, "Every cloud has a silver lining."

As a linguist, I love words.  I especially like to help people laugh or feel better about themselves.  Efficient sure does sound better than lazy, but I don't mind the "lazy" monicker because the greatest inventors were labeled with it too.

Viento

[Viento Amable]

What about a plastic water tank?  They're supposed to be able to take a bit of pressure, right?  I mean water certainly weighs enough.  If I rigged it up so the creek filled a tank (using gravity or small pump run by air), then pressurizing it with the compressed air from the wind turbine would push the water out the tank and up the hill.  A 110 to 120 psi would do it. I haven't thought how to automate this system, but some sort of pressure switch to regulate the compressed air ought to do it.

Viento

[tecker]

No problem . That's a prudent approach.

[Nando]

Viento cual es tu NOMBRE real ?.

>No hay mal que por bien no venga

>There is not bad from which good doesn't come

mal and bien are nouns in this phrase, therefore you need to translate them as such.

mal & bien represent actions ( like a bad action , like a good job)

There is not a Bad for which a GOOD does not come

I started to read the NOVEL and stopped because there was so much "chaff" inside the message that I was not able to really get the data to define what is needed.

Please define in short phrases your needs and desired.

like :I have a 250 feet hill with this wind profile or regime.

for water pumping or electricity because the water source is like this: etc,m etc

Short and clear and do not start giving your own suggestion, most readers will stop right there and do not suggest anything.

Detail the water sources profiles, carefully and not barely like you indicated.

What you seem to have is more or less a project like the one I assisted in Center America that needed water for the orchards, the owner made his own wind mills, 10 of them producing power onto a common transmission line feeding several pumps for irrigation to areas that were 300 + feet higher than the water source and wells.

Waiting for the concise report

Nando

[thirteen]

What kind of harsh winter do you deal with?  Would you be able to develope the wind enough to sell back to the power company your excess. If you get your towers built can they be made to be used as supports for solar panels or expand the base for the panels. This way you could protect them from the animals rather than build more taking up more land.

Use a high voltage turbine and transformers for your dc voltage. Nando suggested that for me it may work for you also. Contact him.

As for tanks you might see if there are any at a recycling place that are used. A good paint job may help them. If there is an old dairy bulk plant that is close they used stainless steel tanks. Check out a truck junk yard for a wrecked tanker.  Alot of older water trucks used in constrction are still good and are around 2000 -2500 g.  Alot of old fuel storage tanks are 10,000 gallons and are on skids, just use some soap to clean them before useage. There outside metal is roughly 1/4 in thick and could be pulled up a hill with a dozer in a couple of hours. A plastic tank may be easier or even two smaller tanks might work just fine. Will you need to protect them in the winter months?

If the wire and piping are underground as a suggestion draw a detailed map with measurements and make two copies. This may help you in 10-20 years to find something broken. And keep a list of what has been used and where.

Sounds like you have a fun couple of years ahead.

You can laugh or just pass this bye but just some ideas.

[vawtman]

Hi Viento

 Back when i was a kid my uncle used to move cattle from pasture to pasture by making manmade springs.He even used the willow branch technique to find a spot to drive the well point.He used the bucket on the tractor to drive the casing in and must say it did work.

 Not sure what your water table is like but if you have natural spring already should work not sure.

[Viento Amable]

Here's what I'm faced with:

I need to move 250 gallons of water uphill daily.

The difference in elevation from the water source to the hilltop is 250 feet.

The distance from the water source to the hill top is 1,250 feet.

Viento

[Viento Amable]

I've been living here for three years and haven't seen it get cold enough to freeze a 2,000 g tank of water.  The 50-gallon water troughs will get a three- or four-inch layer of ice over them from time to time -- but the animals are able to deal with it.

Thanks for the scrounging ideas for tanks. I'll hunt around before buying new.  

The ground slips quite a lot on these hills.  The hill roads around here just fall away in places from time to time.  Underground pipes are problematic.  I fixed a flexible pipe from a developed spring twice my first year here -- slips pinched the pipe.  In frustration, the last fix left the pipe on the ground.  I haven't had a problem since.

Viento

[Viento Amable]

In the winter, the hills leak like a sieve.  Hundreds of "wet-weather" springs show up around mid-December to the start of January.  The catch is they rarely spring from the same places; I don't understand it.  By May, I'm left with three springs.  

I stand in awe of water witches.  Had one try to teach me how to use the twig technique too.  I only seem to be able find large rocks about 3 or 4 feet below the surface :-)

Viento

[scottsAI]

Some of what you're talking about sounded expensive so how does this sound?

Single Low cost pump: (looked like ships anywhere, common pump)

WAYNE T100S10-4 1 HP Submersible Deep Well Water Pump Item number: 270076814739

price: US $174.99 (Wayne pumps)

End time: 6 hours 55 mins ( Jan-13-07 19:44:07 PST)

Shipping costs: US $34.99 (discount available)

Other (see description)

Service to United States

Ships to: United States, Canada, Europe, Japan, Australia

With 250 ft head, should pump more than 10 gpm. 250 g / 10 = 25 minute run time per day.

If water and power are available why a large tank? Maybe couple days at most, cheaper tank?

Power

800. w for 25min is less than 400whr/day. Your use is below capability of pump less power.
     
230. vac inverter is needed, not cheap
     
     

Mod sin may work, run time is not long, much cheaper inverter.

My Tripp-lite Mod sin inverter has 5 minute 2x over power run time, perfect for starting motors.

10. mph wind:
    
12. ' wind turbine can generate 200w at 36% for each hour. 10' is 140w, 8' is 92w.
    
4. hours of wind will supply all the power your needing.
   
   

Build it like you described.

Battery

Advantage; nice place to store power from wind, solar, hydro etc.

Size the battery for couple days power. Automatic watering system to keep maintained.

Buy cheap battery and expect to replace every couple years. This way if you don't maintain it and it fails then your not out so much money. I like golf cart batteries, $53 each 6v 225ah. Two should do it for you.

Generators

Use high voltage generators. Smaller 2500' wire can be used. Step it down at the battery.

Solar

Build local to battery, no funny business with voltage and wiring like wind.

100w solar panel may be all you need. I expect you will spend as much for 2500 feet of wire as you would pay for a 100w solar panel. May consider skipping the wind gen.

Hydro

If good enough for pump then how about power generators? 17 watts all day = 400whr/day!!

Don't need much when it runs for 24 / 7. Tinny hydro for 17 watts.

What do you think?

Have fun,

Scott.

[RP]

I agree with the high voltage generators.  Wind the stator for 120 volt operation and run it through direct burial 12 gauge wire to the pumps.  There you use a transformer and rectifier to get 12volt DC.  

In this case 2500' of wire will have a total loop resistance of 7.5 ohms so running 120 VAC at 1 amp loses only 7.5 watts for the whole trip.  This translates to 10 amps at 12 volts at the pump.

[wooferhound]

If it was me . . .

I would not move and store the water at the top of a hill, then move it to the animals location and store it again there. You are moving the water twice.

I would . . .

Pump the water straight from the water Source (Creek/Stream) to the animals and store it there. Or if you needed reserves, store the water in a tank at the  water Source, and then pump the water from there to the animals and store it there.

[Nando]

Scott:

Detail the water sources carefully, water volume during the different seasons including depth, or head etc.

Nando

[Norm]

A place where I once worked had 2 tanks while one filled with a slurry...the other was

pressurized and forced the liquid out...they

switched back and forth ... floats inside the tanks operated the air and vacuum valves.

            ( :>) Norm.

[Viento Amable]

The best spring is about 100 feet below the hill top in elevation.

I measured its flow during a one year period.

Month/gpm

Jan 4.5

Feb 3.75

Mar 3.25

Apr 1.825

May 0.75

Jun 0.5

Jul 0.5

Aug 0.375

Sep 0.875

Oct 1.25

Nov 1.5

Dec 2.75

I could realistically build a 50-foot penstock with 25 feet of head.  It's located in a rough place, and I'd have haul by hand anything I'd build there.

The other two year-round springs have half the flow this spring has.  I not positive about their summer flow rates because they were more like wet sponges than anything else.

The creek isn't predictable.  There's a man-made dam about 10 miles from me.  The government authority uses it to protect city folk down stream and keep a lake full for summertime fisherman and boats.  There are also beaver who come to visit from time to time.  What they build, a flood destroys so they don't stay long.

I know the high water mark for floods; 8.5 feet from creek bottom to flood crest.  

The lowest the creek level has been in 3 years was 3 inches.  

The average height of the water is 3.875 feet.

The creek has 4.5 feet of head over a distance of 2,800 feet.  

I've measured the speed of the water flow for a year: .45 mph slowest, 4.5 mph fastest, 1.25 mph average (about 70 percent of the time.)

Scott

[Nando]

Scott:

You started to give data that is useful.

The Wet sponges may occur because the water table is close but not enough to push the water OUT and it may need assistance.

If the wet sponge is on the hill, then cutting a channel to lower the exit, the sponge may start generating a stream, I suggested that to a fellow that by doing a 5 foot deep channel he got 10 GPM for two years then he increased the depth to about 15 feet and got 30 GPM minimum enough for him to get 2 KW turbine, next to his house ( also pressurized clean water )

The data you have have enough water for a Ram pump to work, though needs one with low incoming water level.

Wind mills -- plastic blades will have a very short life, go for at least 1 KW for low wind regimes and either Ebay blades or making yours and the way you are talking you need around 10 wind mills

The generator should be high voltage for several reason, easy power transmission to a common point charging or driving point.

A wind mill network of power tied together allows the energy generation to drive one or more electric pumps without the need of batteries since the power peaks about the same time. This is the way a 10 wind mills network was done in Center America. though a battery bank of 240 volts was added that with a home made 10 KW - MSW Inverter supplied energy to the farm for most of the time.

The stream has a potential of about 17 to 80 watts of electric energy, so not very practical for your use.

Nando

[Stonebrain]

Viento,

I'm not an expert in pumps,can't help you for that,

but I have been a goatfarmer myself and just want to comment

your ambition to make 'profitable enterprise'.

In your opinion the government effort to plant trees on the steep hills is a failure.You think it will be profitable to 'clear the hills up'

Yes,I can affirm that goats are the best way to do the job.

But I would say it rather in other words:

Goats are the best way to destroy a gouvernment effort to

protect the steep hills.For profit?

Not very sure,you don't seem to have much knowledge about goats.

They are lazy,hahaha.

They go everywhere where they find good food and going a few miles

for finding it is just fun for them,and if they just go

where they want,they will find it on your neighbours land.

Anyway,if they find their food without 'cleaning' the hills,

what's wrong with that?

I'm the first to tell you that goats destroy any tree.

I planted lots of trees,and where I wanted trees (on the steep

hillsides) I didn't go with the goats.

There is nothing profitable in your project to 'clean' the

steep hills,They should be covered by the cheap photochemical

re devices:trees.

cheers,

stonebrainh

[Countryboy]

My advice would be to go visit a working farm.  See how the locals do things, and then think about what improvements you can make.

I live in Central Ohio.  Around here, farmers have a simple solution to problems like these.  They build a fence corridor from the pasture field to the water supply.  The livestock can carry all the water they want in their bellies.  Sometimes the simplest solution really is the best.

Who cares if animals don't travel far from the water hole?  Animals will go as far as needed to get food.  If there is no food near the water, they don't have a problem walking to the other side of the pasture to get something to eat.

The only time I have seen wet weather springs move is if you lay a tile line up to the spring.  You have to lay a drainage tile line all the way through and past the spring - but that eliminates the wet weather spring.

Another technique is to take a backhoe and dig out the wet weather spring.  It'll form a pool full of water.  You see large waterholes for livestock dug like this out West.

You can also dig holding ponds at the outlets of the 3 free flowing springs.

As long as the livestock have access to water at some place in their pasture, they will be ok.