Another good reveiw.

[Jerry]

I have a Garbogen customer in central Maine who has tried several small comercial 4ft  wind generators. To date the Garbogen has preformed the best and collected more KWH. He says he's in a marginal wind site.

Another Garbogen customer here in Oregon complained his Garbogen kept blowing the 40 amp fuse I had sugjested. We've replaced it with an 60 amp fuse, all is well now.

The guy in Maine has been talking to a manufacture in So. Africa about there 4 ft unit. I won't mention the Co. name.

However I took a look at its wind test #s and the Garbogen seems to do a littel better up to about 20 mph then the 2 machines seem to stay even.

Gives a good feelin to see a home brew unit work so well. And its quiet.

                      JK TAS Jerry

[Nando]

Can anyone in detail tell me what is a Garbogen and if possible some photos and specifications

Thanks

Nando

[willib]

you could do a site search

[hiker]

heres jerrys site.......

        http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html

[Nando]

I went to Jerry's site but I could not find out what the Garbogen was, no info !!

Many photos that all !! But no indication of a garbogen or info.

Nando

[Flux]

Nando

I am sure Jerry will reply to this, but I believe that there is some garbage disposal process in N America, that I am not familiar with, that uses a fair sized single phase induction motor.

This is the motor that Jerry converts to an alternator by adding magnets to the rotor.

Garbogen seems to be a Jerry term based on garbage and generator.

Flux

[elvin1949]

1hp garbage disposal motor,#29 curved neo mag's.

later

elvin

[Norm]

  That plus his 'Jerry blades' to turn it..

which seems to be a good match for it ....

         ( :>) Norm.

[Nando]

FLUX:

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, Now I get in a proper sense !!!

Nando

[tecker]

Pull out your garbage desposal it eats up too much power anyhow  turn it down for some really stout mags,throw some blades on it " alternator" alias "Garbogen" perfecly clear to me .Alot clearer than say Mickey Mouse .Is that a mouse or a human in a Mouse suit .

[Jerry]

Hi Nando.

The Garbogen is as stated an AC motor conversion. When I first came upon this site aproximetly 5 or 6 years ago - one of the first wind generators sugjested by DanB was an ac motor conversion. Indeed I belive it is still in the project pages of Otherpower.

The magnets used in this motor conversion were sold here by DanB. I baught some and built a machine as per Dans instructions (thanks Dan).

It worked so well I was impresed enough to ask the local electric motor shops, plumbing shops and heating and airconditioning shops if I might have a few of there old junk ac motors. They were all very nice and gave me a bunch. I mean a bunch.

Over the years I've collected over 1,000 free motors and I've done hundreds of conversions. Early on Dan sold the old #29 curved NEO magnets. They fit most of these motors perfect.

One of the best motors for this conversion is the 1 hp garbage disposal motors.

It has some atributes that make it better then its equal in a standard utility type 1 hp ac motor.

One is its larger then normal bore diameter. It has this larger diameter to give more tourque for the grinding a crunching of hard food waistes it incounters. The larger diameter means the magnets will passing the the coils in the stator at a faster speed.

this helps to lower cutin speed and increase power output. These motors are designed for short intermitant use. As such there coils are not backed in heavy varnish and the coil ends and starts are easy to identify and to reasign conection.

The motor cans are very easy to build new end caps for and the stators are very easy to remove from the cans for coil reconfiguration.

The 1 hp motor is rated 1725 rpm, 4 pole , single phase, 120 vcolts, 10 amps.

Do a littel math 120 volts times 10 amps = 1200 watt. These motors are rated to consume 1200 watts.

Since these are 4 pole motors, there are 4 run coils wired in sires, this means the each coil is a 30 volt 10 amp coil. If we wired all 4 coils in perelell and it was still a motor it would now be a 30 volt, 40 amp motor. 30v X 40 a = 1200 watts still.

Now place a 4 curved NOEs that cover most of each pole, N, S, N, S. with a gap around a 1/32", With these coils inbeded if the best posable lamination silicon steel.

Well there is an extreamly strong flow of flux. Anough to make this 1200 watt motor now turned into a PMA with my blades produce 1200 watts at 45 mph.

Now 45 mph is not practical but an amp or 2 at 5-6 mph is and over 500 watts at 30 MPH is quite acceptable.

I also incorperate the use of the start windings in this unit. Start windings are typicaly wound with much smaller wire with more turns. This serves to make there resistance very high during motor startup. This helps to avoid burnup of the small wire and the start windings are used for a secound to establish rotor spin and direction then they are swiched off and out of circcut with a sentrifical switch.

Using them with there own and seperate fullwave bridge rectifire works well to increase low wind cutin without the heavy amperage loading the much larger gage run windings would produce. Besides theres less blade power at low wind speed. So its like haveing a small wind generatore for cutin and the larger one kicks in as the wind power comes up. At the same time the small winding contribute to the overall power.

The motor after conversion becomes a 2 phase PMA.

I've been building and selling Garbogens for a # of years now. I have units in New Zealand, Austrailia, Germany, The UK, Canada and all over the US.

I've been asked to provide a test unit for a new of grid comunity here in Oregon later this year.

So what I've ended up with here is a home built wind generator that cost less then any comercial unit of its size and power rateing, it starts up sooner,makes more power, its very quiet it has survived 80 plus MPH winds.

I've made many major improvments over the years both in durability and preformance. But its still called the Garbogen.

If some one has some ideas on how to improve the preformance on this machine or have a better design on a 4 ft machine please share with us. I'm allways open to making things better.

I've left many details out of this story. Just not enough time.

You said to Flux "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Now I get in a proper sence !!!" could you explain that for me.

Thanks.

                              JK TAS Jerry

 

[swmiwindnsolar]

Hello Jerry et al.

Has anyone written up detail plans from start to finish for a Garbogen using Jerry's blades?

Thanks, Art.

Lawrence, MI.

[Jerry]

Hi Art.

The Garbogen has been a work in progress 5 or so years. Many improvement have happened over this time.

There are a # of ways to build it. The best preforming magnets and the heart of its good preformance. These are the old #29 curved NEO magnets.

These magnets were surplus. There are some smaller version that work fairly well but with reduced output. It would be posable to have a magnet manufacture reproduce the original magnets and even make them better by increasing the width, thickness and reducing the lingth. This may even increase power output. However I've never persude this.

NTL a board member here has purchased and sells the slightly smaller version at a good price. His magnet is actully better suited for other ac motor conversions then the old # 29s are.

The first thing you do when building a Garbogen is to find a doaner disposal. Out of the hundreds I've collected only a few had burnt coils. 99.9 % of the units have bad food chopper section. You don't use that part anyway.

All units below the 1 hp are wound with aluminum wire. These will work but with much less power.

The 1 HP with copper wire is a very rare unit. The 3/4 hp are plentyfull and at 7.9 to 8.3 amps make for a close second.

After aquiering your garbage disposal you tear it down. The parts you don't use on this project are the armature and the food chopper end. These motors are designed for shot intermient use. As such the only have bushings, not bearings.

Bearings are a must. Bushings increase drage, wear, cogging. The shaft needs a rolling surface not a sliding draging surface.

The original armature is too short for the arch segment curved NEOs you may find.

This is why I've used the armature from a furnace blower motor. They are logner and typicaly have a much longer shaft also. The shaft on the original armature is short.

Another addvantage of the furnace motor armature is its smaller diameter. This means less machining to make room for the magnets to fit the stator bore.

In most cases the original bottom end cap it stamped thin steel. It has a bushing not a bearing. You could somehow make an adaptor that might support a bearing on the cheap end cap. I've not used this type yet.

The very best and expencive units come with a cast aluminum bottom end cap. It also has a bushing. I've hade some sucess machining these and installing bearings in these. It takes 2 so you have to collect 2 of the expencive unit to make 1.

I've also made new end caps from plywood. The best end caps I've made are machined 3/8" thick aluminum plate. This also makes a good heat sink for the rectifiers.

Next upgrade is to build an all new armature from solid steel. This makes conciderable more power then an ac motor armature wich has a high aluminum content

that reducees the flux path.

Another addvantage is the shaft can be made from much larger diameter steel. This provides better stringth to support the streeses the blades place on the shaft.

The stator is easyly removed and recentered. Befor disaembly the stator is at one end of the motor can. It must be moved to center.

The wireing mods are easy. If the unit is to be used at 24 volts no wire changes are need. The 12 volt mods are prety easy.

If the unit is use in very high wind area all the run coils can be perelelled the wired to there own and seperate fullwave bridge rectifier. Same with the start coils with there own and seperate fullwave bridge rectifiers. Then the DC outputs of both bridges are combined.

I've seen 1200 watts from this machine in this mod at 45 mph. Now 45 mph is not what we would design a machine for but if your area had alot of 20 to 30 mph winds it would be great. But who lives there?

So I wire it in what I call the middel wireing scheem. Its not the stock wireing we'd use at 24 volt and its not the all perelell we'd use in a constant hurican but inbetween. It a combo of sires perelell. This is best for everday use.

As far as my plastic blades. I'll will be testing my blades against the accepted carved wood blades and a set of plastic pipe blades made from scratch.

At this point I'm not sure but I think my blades will start up sooner and over the entier wind spectrum produce more power. I could be wrong about this, this is why I want to make this test in a wind tunnel setting with a # of small PMAs both motor conversions and dual rotor machines.

Everthing I've posted above has allredy been posted a # of times. Search my diary and stories.

I'm very busy at my retail car stereo store. This does not leave much time to do justice to explaining or writing things like the Garbogen story.

I promiss you as soon as I win the lotto I'll spend more time explaining a bunch of things I do. LOL.

I'll do my best with the limited time I have.

This unit could be built with minamul tools and skills or it can be made into a very nice and better preformer then several comercial units its size.

There are many garbage disposal motors along with many other types of motors in alot of recycle dumpsters and other places. I've allways felt its to bad this part of home brew wind gennies has not had more intrest. Most of the work has been done, they're easy and as small machines work quite well? OH Well.

                         JK TAS Jerry

[coldspot]

Hey jerry-

Again, may I remind you of the forums

"Classifieds"  ?

just my

$0.02

And not worth even that much

I enjoy your posts and like to try stuff my way

I like the "jerryphased" or what ever it was you renamed it.

Not tried it yet but thats lack of a way to attach blades to shafts mainly,

The only garbage disposal unit I've found so far was a sinkmaster 401 and it turned out to be a DC unit.

But I did get a couple of hubs done for last weekend and will be trying a set of "trim blades", (set of 4 at 18" each).

Then a set made from a HF "windmill rodent chaser" # 93666 that had the bearing fail and fall out in first half a days worth of testing in backyard before taking it up to the cabin.

These are 18.75" each three blade pusher type simular to the ceiling fan blades I've used on my Ametek. They are unmodified other than hub to fit garbage unit, square leading and trailing edges, not like the real airfoil profile of the trimblades.

l8r

[Jerry]

Hi Coldspot.

Thanks for the classified reminder. In this diary about the Garbogen it was more just letting folks in on the report. I know I could take addvantage of the free adds but I feel a littel funny about abuzing that privlidge.

Actully just showing an idea that works incase someone else might like to try there hand. And showing that the littel unit has some good results.

I'm so busy now that if I went on areal promotion campain I'd have now way to keep up with orders.

I think when I see people buying expencive comercial units and maybe intimidated about the involved prosess of the dual rotor they might concider a motor conversion if there needs are small and there budjet is low. A cheap simple remady might help.

The DC garbage disposals are the ones I remove the littel 6 amp diode bridges from.

Theres a couple nice big curved ceramic magnets in those also that can be cut with a wet tile saw real easy. These can retro fit some small motor conversions then.

About your trim blades. When I remodeled the retail store I ended up with a PU load of that stuff. I still have it and thought many times about a small constant angle blade.

See there ya go again. Too many ideas and not enough time? LOL & tears!

Dang clock Dang calender they both go way to fast@#$@!*^

                         JK TAS Jerry

[swmiwindnsolar]

Thanks Jerry.

-Art.

Lawrence, MI.