Confidence or No Confidence??

[TomW]

I tend to be misunderstood often in my postings and it has been recently suggested that I do not think "new folks" have any right to post ideas or thoughts. I have never, ever even considered such a position on posting. I do, however, think any rational person would take some time to get a feel for the board before suggesting we should change some part of the board. There is a vast difference in the two positions.

I am not here to get approval from anyone on my actions, this is not a popularity contest nor is it an exclusive club. We are, however, quite defensive when we feel someone is trying to muck around with what this board has been doing for the past 4 or 5 years.

There is this myth on the internet that you have a "right" to post your opinions. This is simply not true. Every piece of the web was purchased by some entity as is all the bandwidth. All posts on all forums, blogs or what have you are using resources provided by someone who will have the true right to require whatever conditions they choose to allow use of the resource. Right, wrong or indifferent that is how it is.

Long long ago I offered to help DanB in any way I could to help make this board a useful resource for as many folks as possible. He accepted the offer and when the board migrated to Scoop he made me an editor and Admin on the new board. I have been doing it ever since. Awhile back I took a 6 month break from even reading the board to get away from the building dissatisfaction with my actions. Been back a few weeks and have been more or less quietly doing things in the background and avoiding confrontation even when I feel some post should be responded to. Problem is almost everyone knows I am an Editor / Admin here so anything I post is thought to be "official", this is not the case. I am a member just like the rest of you and  I feel I should be able to voice an opinion as a member like anyone else. When I do voice an opinion the opposition will twist my actual text and turn it into something that was not said nor even implied.

Here is your chance to give me the Axe. I have never had anything but the good of the board as my goal.

I attached a simple poll to this Diary. I request that you take a moment and vote in the poll. If the majority of unique voters vote "No Confidence" I will personally reset my user level to "Users" but, beware, I will likely be more vocal as a plain old user not worried about being perceived fair as an official entity here. If it returns more "Confidence" votes then the whiners and dump TomW cult will be expected to shut the fsck up.

Ok thats my rant. It is a Diary so it is not cluttering the board. Feel free to reply and please vote in the poll.

As always, DanB is the owner and makes the final decision that I will abide by regardless.

Cheers.

TomW

[Countryboy]

"I do, however, think any rational person would take some time to get a feel for the board"

I'll bite.  What criteria do we use to determine if someone is rational or not?

That's the kicker.

You can't mandate, educate, or even legislate common sense.  Folks either have it or they don't.

[commanda]

I've been here for a couple of years now. I personally have the utmost confidence in Tom.

Maybe Tom should have 2 personalities;

TomW as Admin

TomW as User.

Amanda

[SparWeb]

Tom,

Don't fret.  You don't even need to defend yourself.  The more people hide behind their computer monitors, the safer they feel taking shots at other people huddled behind theirs.  Other folks like to arrive in a new place, and the first thing they do is try to make it look like the place they came from.  They do this on the internet, they do it in reality.  You just have to grow a thick skin.

I'm a member of other forums ("fora") where, when a member gets out of line, they not only get the boot, but every post they ever made gets expunged.  It's quite disturbing to see it happen to members who've contributed for a while, but it's also a relief when real idiots are kicked off.

That doesn't seem to be happening here.  Everyone can have their rants on the "rants" section, and be done with it.  Furthermore, the more committed members of the site seem to stick around with no interest in the politics.  Even I feel hesitant to wade into this issue, but I don't think you need to be defensive.

Keep up the good work.

(PS, the comments above are NOT meant to reflect on the recent thread that seems to have prompted this post.  The former thread is a matter of style, the latter is about substance.)

[zap]

Kudos Tom, I think you and the powers that be have done a wonderful job of steering this behemoth of a site down the ever changing Information SuperHighway.

It hasn't always been a smooth ride, there's been some bumpy sections and I'm sure rough spots lay ahead but you have my vote for what I imagine is a mostly 'thankless' job.

[zap]

P.S. thanks Tom

[scottsAI]

Hello TomW,

I have nothing but respect for you and the work you do. I don't have time to do your work and it is work that needs to be done. I am pleased you have chosen to do the work! You are stuck between a rock and a hard spot. Or is that a magnet?

First of all I do not think of you as Admin, yes I know if I think about it, but I read your post as TomW, a good guy posting, somebody to listen to and learn from.

Only time I think of Admin is when something is edited with admin or editor attached.

I would like to discuss your post 11 on 30jan07. Explore the cause for reaction.

I would have preferred to send this directly to you, no email address.

I want no miss understanding of my intent here.

I like this place very much. I spend almost as much time here as any other thing in my life.

That makes you part of it too. I do not want to see that to change.

My job has almost always been about change. Many people do not like me because I fix things by changing them. Problem I have had most of my life. It does pay well but took a long time to get here.

As a peace maker I don't do as well, but today I will try with my best effort.

So, what's up with post 11?

Let's start with the title: "Well, personally, I am insulted"

Right there it has become personal, you said it, not Claude.

Claude's suggestion was based on his life experiences, he really though it would make this a better place. If Claude though his post would make you go away, I think he would retract it immediately, I have seen nothing but helpful enthusiasm from him in his post. Yes, I looked and read them.

Very obvious you felt strongly about your post, that's great, as you stated it's the Internet.

Works both ways!

Next, "I find it insulting"... 6 months.

Personally, it always ticks me off when "new people" vs 4-5 years.

If I felt like Claude, I could not have waited 6 months and contributed 49 posts with pictures before making a suggestion for improvement. I live like many here in the belief people are looking for the best way to do things, ALL things not only how to build a great wind generator.

Reading back on this I hope you see those are very strong words? Or should I say sarcastic?

You can disagree with me, but 6 months is not exactly new. Maybe not an old timer, but not a new people. Claude's suggestion was not sarcastic...

Now you must be thinking I'm one of those politically correct people, well if you knew me you would not even think such a thing. I detest them. Opps I got personal there.

When something is given as personal than a personal response is appropriate? Do you agree?

The rest of your post was great:

"Change is slow here so kick back, grab your glasses and a beverage and learn about making sustainable power.

If I have offended you or misunderstood your intention / meaning here, well, welcome to the internet!"

I hope this was helpful in making peace, or has it made things worse?

I spent two hours writing this, re-reading it to make it say as nicely as I could what needed to be said.

Somebody else could have written a better note, I felt some responsibility so was compelled to try to make it better. When I started this, there were no posts, the 4 now are better than this.

Look forward to your continued support, posts, rants etc:-)

Thank you TomW.

Best regards,

Scott.

[stop4stuff]

TomW, you've put me in my place a few times over the last 3 years... thanks

An observation...no offense here.. you do seem to take thing a bit personal and respond in a personal way... but then that's your character & that's what makes you one of 'The Characters' of this board.

If ppl can't take you for what you are, that's their problem...

you got my vote.

paul

[harrie]

Dont beat up on yourself, I know the feeling, we all say things that maybe we shouldnt, or it is taken the wrong way. In the end, we all die, What we did and said in life is soon forgoten. Keep up the good work, and next time, if you think what you say will piss someone off, it probley will, so just leave it as a thought, than you can avoid posting poll!

[gotwind2]

Personally I have every confidence in TomW.

In the 12 months I have been visiting this board and the IRC, Tom has put me straight on countless matters, which I thank him for.

Any guy who offers to airmail me an Ametek DC motor for FREE from the U.S to the U.K proves that his intentions are good.

Just a thought, maybe postings could be editable after posting? (when the poster has calmed down and has a rethink of there 'wording' on a particular rant/discussion). Or do what I do, preview the post 2 or 3 times and edit/rethink before finally submitting.

Ben

[Jon Miller]

Hi all.

First thing, I like many others feel that the intentions of 99% of the people on this baoard are to learn.

Second thing, I stayed out of the post this all refers to and although I hate black text on white background I read it all twice just to make sure I understood.

Third thing, TomW I have known of as a person sitting on a computer somewhere else in the world sharing with me his opinion since the first board some 5-6 years ago now I believe?  I'm not particularly old but like to consider the following to be true 'its not the years in your life, it's the life's in your years'.  The more people on this board the more life's there are present, the more problems are due to come along.  Admin and editors do a great job managing the board considering the number of people on it.  

If the admin wanted to pull the plug on this site they could and there would be nothing any one of use can do about it.  We are there gests, they are very good hosts!  

TomW you do a fine job and far more dedicated to this board then me, I have respect for you because of this.  You get my vote to stay!

Regards

[Nothing40]

No worries from my end.

Ya might have been a tad hard on Claude,but you did have a point.

Either way,IMO,your knowledge is far too valuable to 'get rid of' over a silly misunderstanding. And in this game, Knowledge = Power. Literally!

[tecker]

Hmmmm  I don't know whyI read through this thread I really don't .You could photocopy it and post it as a "winter grumble" and goggle would link it to hemorrhoid gel or something. I guess I 've been looking for a little clarity and was informed that you take on a potion of the admin duties ,Enough said . It's a thankless job and It 's a good thing  you lean toward the antagonist, protagonist lead in and get down to the "nut cuttin". I don't read the forum to get elementary notes .Measure twice and cut once and turn out a good unit .Something that one can be proud of. Something you can say yes we were there We saw through the bull stuff and made the grade.  

   If you would just put a name to that disgusting bovine fanny . It is a she I suppose .

 

[drdongle]

Don't sweat it Tom, you have feet of clay just like the rest of us, keep up the good work.

[Gary D]

I'd say confidence, but buy the guy(Tom) a beverage of his choice. Seeing what happened to the ESSN (Energy Self Sufficiency Newsletter).... no money coming in, so no more ESSN, it's a wonder that this forum still exists. It is not a get rich skeem for sure.... RE costs more in the short term period. Each one of us makes a decision to come to this forum. It is more than spinning magnets past some magnet wire to most of us, it's about personalities and different thoughts/ways of living....  Gary D.

[nothing to lose]

Hang in there Tom. Got my vote.

The forum is kinda like one big family to many of us. Even brothers and sisters have a squabble now and then.

[stephent]

Hmmm quite a unique thought....editors/users having an opinion and being able to express it, without everyone getting bent out of shape.

Maybe we should really just test this theory and very closely monitor it to see if it gets out of hand or something.

Even better yet, ask the "owners" if ya need 50 lashes with a cordless mouse tail to get your punishment done (if needed in this case) and we can get back to business.

TomW--stick around (even if ya are a grouchy old fart)

[electrondady1]

i love this forum, warts and all!

three years i've been coming here, it's never dull.

tom , thanks for all your hard work, it must be tough to steer such a big boat!

caude , keep you ideas coming , tom might love the next one!

but plastic surgery on this baby is not an option .lol

 

[jimjjnn]

Tom, Stay here your input is always appreciated. I missed your comments when you were away.

Glad you came back.

[RogerAS]

TomW et al,

I distinctly remember how much of a horses behind I was last summer, and more importantly how TomW maintained a reasonably level head while I went completely bonkers. I feel, without reservation, that this forum would be a lesser resource without Mr. TomW's, and others, oversight. I resubmit my apologies for that behavior. His 6 month hiatus may have been partially my fault, and I regret that very much.

I wouldn't be able to do the editorial job here, or anywhere. I'm a reactionary, old school, hard headed ex biker with little patience and zero tact. If I disagree with something, or someone, I have no inhibitions about getting in right up in their "stuff". I have a crooked nose to prove it! Do I wish I were a more contemplating and reasonable? At times, sure, but that's not who I am and I'm a little long in the tooth to undergo major personality changes. I'm not convinced that would even make me a better person. The point I'm poorly trying to make is I'm very glad someone like TomW, rather than someone like myself, is an editor here.

Mr. TomW isn't perfect, as is no one, but the effort to "do the right thing" otherwise trumps what some may feel is objectionable behavior. How? By sticking his neck out! Without that courage, resolve or whatever he becomes as sounding brass and tinkling silver, like me. If we users cannot respect that then we need to move along. As far as I'm concerned Tom has earned my respect, several times over.

I also agree that this forum is NOT a democratic media source and I'm glad! Democratic governing doesn't work in these situations and here's why. Suppose an overwhelming number of marketing efforts by PRC entities voted to make this forum all about their products to the exclusion of the DIY efforts. Who among us would use this resource then? Suppose someone like "Johnny Cool Pants" posted so many offensive messages that only those of like mind remained. Would that be acceptable to us? I doubt it very much. I personally do not care to read commercial postings from those with only self serving interests, and without editorial oversight that's all we would have here, or worse.

The implication that some of Mr. TomW's remarks are offensive may have some validity, but the fact remains that in order to maintain order some feathers must be ruffled from time to time. The posting about graphic updates might have been handled differntly on both sides, but I'm not concerned. After all, If someone suggested I paint my house bright pink I might react much more intensely, despite John Melloncamp's opinion. (BTW my wife can still stop my clock!) :-)

My nose isn't brown. I just know that direction and oversight are required here. I don't want the job, I couldn't do the job, and I don't envy those actually doing the job. So, I hope that Mr. TomW remains as long as he sees fit, puts me in my place when needed and is given the respect he has earned.

So, to me, the poll results are irrelavent. Mr. TomW is showing much more character and honor by exposing himself in this way than I would ever be capable. Make your own choice Tom, and let the cow chips fall where they may.

 

[kurt]

hey tom sprout some thicker skin and stick around.

[Darren73]

Tom,

You have my vote of confidence, as many others have said an edit button would make life much easier, unfortunately we don't have that luxury here.

Posts can be read in many ways, not necessarily as the poster intended, this can and does lead to the kind of misunderstanding that brought this to the boil.

We all have our "off" days and you and the other editors do a great job of keeping this board in the shape it's in, many thanks to all of you for your continued efforts.

 I know it can be a thankless task on times, but you all have my support.

kind regards

Darren

(spell checked in UK English)

[Experimental]

Hello Tom,

     Through the years, I have belonged to MANY organizations and everyone of them , had people that were always being critical !

They criticized nearly everything done, but when it came time to do something constructive, they were never there -- espically if it involved a work party !!

    This board has been one of the most useful "TOOLS" I have ever used, and often, I will ask a question, even when I know the answer -- because I want other opinions and ideas..

At the same time, I occationally offer a suggestion to someone, but only if I have had personal experience with that paticular part of a project, and I ALWAYS offer others encouragement on whatever they do !!

    I have no idea of what this is all about, but you are doing something constructive for all of us, therefore, I offer you encouragement not critisium !!

What you are doing, is a thankless job, few would do or even have the skill to do.

    I thank you, Bill H......

   

[libra]

I am grateful for this board and all the info and suggestions. I have learned much and have much to learn. The admin has my vote and gratude for the work done on this site. I would not have a genny without this site.

Libra

[asheets]

Tom -- you are just like me:  you'll give the shirt off your back, but you'll also tell it "like it is."  And, just like me, you occasionally ruffle some feathers.  

Was it 2 years ago that you stepped away temporarily as a sysop?  I told you then that you were being very responsible for admitting that things were bothering you too much and that you needed some time away.  BTW, I'm glad you are back with us right now, and don't want to see you leave.

I think some of the things that you complain about are (slowly) being addressed -- the new "newbies" catagory is one of them.  I think a more complete FAQ and definitions list might also be appropriate.  Perhaps, even, a set of blueprints for introductory designs might be in order as well.  Maybe your calling is to take some time and build those pieces (and when they aren't looked at, THEN you can start screaming for all your worth )

I'll admit something myself -- one of the things that bugs me at this site is the number of people who show up and start asking questions about basic physics, chemistry, electronics, etc., that they should have learned in middle school.  I just "lurked" on the boards for the 1st year before I even created an account to post something.  Maybe that's rare and maybe that's not; perhaps some people are just impatient while I was just having fun reading up on everything that has ever been discussed on both the old board and the new/current one.

Hang in there, TomW -- we need you!

[claude]

Tom,

I voted for you because believe it or not, I'm much like you. My professional skills or my work is always highly regarded but when it comes to speaking my mind I often get in trouble with sensitive people. There's no need for such a vote of confidence since this wonderful board is the living proof of your qualities. And your redemption too.

You haven't hurt my feelings. Well, maybe a little but I have short memory. By the way, thanks for reminding me I now have 6 months on this board, I didn't counted that. Lord, how time flies...

No matter what others think, the most important is to speak from the heart. I appreciate your post as a defender of this board. You do a good job. There has to be a doberman around the house sometimes. Next time I'll use the doorbell :-)

Claude

[hiker]

hang in there  TOM.........

[Bruce S]

TomW;

  As many have said, before I made the jump and got my loggin wings, I lurked to see IF this site was going to be worth my time and efforts. I liked most of what I read and saw.

As an Admin: I have no problems with what you have done in the past and I don't believe that I have ever had any of my posts or comments "edited" ,but then I too have been working deep within the bowels of computers for better than 20 years.

At a user level : I was be more than a little irked when you jump down someones throat for no real good reason other than it might have hit a soft spot.

The myth part is partialy true, we in the US have the right to say what we want to, it was fought hard to get here and will stay that way as long as me, and our 3 gun totin, badge carry'n , & uniform wear'n sons have any say in it.

The internet part is true though which is why the Wise owners put the R&O section up. They and the Admins have the right to edit anything and everything they want to.

That post that probably caused this confidance poll, wasn't handled very well by more than one person but the past is the past and it should remain that way.

Being relagated to a dailup etc.... here at work for putting an person in their place also nearly caused me to lose my job. but that's me I say the brutal truth when it's needed.IMHO: Porn on a company computer is grounds to be fired, unless of course you're the owner of the company.

R: brought up a painful past post. Even then I wish I had handled my answers better, but again, can't change the past.

I answered your poll with a positve for Admin rights.

But to be bluntly honset I did not miss the knee-jerk reactions from the user level.

Bruce S

 

[PeterAVT]

Tom, I'd say don't let stuff like that bug you so much. It won't do you any good to be all upset. I've been lurking and reading and learning here for years, and there's a lot more I want to learn and do.

For me, the scoop setup and the website is just fine. I'm a heavy 'net user tho, and not everybody is all familiar with online stuff. If you built this place, then don't be taking any crap about your efforts.

I'm on a few other sites where the admins have had to ban users or limit access. Hey, they own their sites, and they can do that. Just like owning a real house, you have an online home and you hope the guests have some respect.

Take care,

-pete

[pepa]

   Tom, we do need for you to stay. you have my vote. pepa jesse kendrick

[vawtman]

Tom I happen to like your style.Has you well know im a little out of the box and dont mind being put in my place.

The more i get told things wont work the more i think.Fun!

  So the moral of the story is that if someone doesnt like your methods dont give up.I would be on welfare if i just gave up everytime.

     Have fun and if its not fun try to make it fun.You and the guys do a great JOB.

[jmk]

 You guys have too much to talk about in one day! Sutt up or leave it alone! lead follow or get out of the way! I am German  You stupid dunculfs! and currently I'm not5 in the usa.

[TomW]

Folks;

I only posted this because I was singled out as a source of "damage" to this site. I am not going to leave on my own but felt clarification was necessary. I talk with enough people in other channels like IRC and Email to know that the bulk of the forum users feel I am acting honestly and fairly with the occasional burst of frustration in doing this job.

But the editing itself is not that frustrating compared to being completely and utterly misquoted and misrepresented more often than not. I have butted heads with a fair number of users over the years. Most would tell you themselves that, while I may have been somewhat harsh, I was generally acting honestly and honorably in the interest of the forum itself. Several have said so in responses to this Diary. Unlike my latest detractor, I will not name them. We know who we are and we are adult enough to let it go and move onward.

I guess I am going to keep on editing simply because most of those showing a preference want me to stay and keep doing what I do. My first responsibility in this is the board users and keeping this a viable resource for DIY power harvesting.

One other thing you probably already know is that I always try to respond with precise language and as good a spelling as possible so that my meaning will be clear. Some people read "black" and since they hoped to see "white" thats what they see. I will always defend myself when my words are twisted into something that was not said.

Once again, thanks for the support to those of you who showed it. And, while I don't agree, thanks for voting as the lone dissenter, whoever you were because you are, indeed entitled to your opinion.

I think this thread has gone far enough so no need to continue it. I put it in as a Diary so as not to clutter the main board where it would of been off topic for sure.

Thanks to all for being involved in this great enterprise to teach people globally how to make their electricity from scratch.

No harm, no foul.

Cheers.

TomW