Author Topic: Pyle capacitor  (Read 3425 times)

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willib

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Pyle capacitor
« on: February 03, 2007, 08:06:02 AM »
i found this on ebay

22Ah out of a supercap





truely awesome

its 10 Farads BTW

$170 ,with shipping is still a little steep for me though .

it can handle 24V surges , it says.

there are others that are built for 24V continious.

just windowshopping i suppose
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 08:06:02 AM by (unknown) »
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willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 06:36:44 AM »
these look cool

they dont have any bells or whistles , but were just $23 apiece

two 1 Farad caps for less than the price of one at pepboys

bells and whistles can be two built in digital meters Volts and Amps , a built in relay, and miss connection protection




« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 06:36:44 AM by willib »
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windstuffnow

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 07:37:14 AM »
  It actually has a 22ah battery inside with a bank of small capacitors making up something like 3-6 farad depending on the model.  Their counting the battery as part of the capacitance.   Kind of pricey for what it is... battery in a fancy case.


.  

« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 07:37:14 AM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 08:31:41 AM »
thanks Ed for setting me right , i would have been real dissappointed , i was wondering why their 6F, 10F, and 25F battery caps were all 22AH.

are you still using supercaps in your system? how is it working out.

you dont talk about it much, when i get the two i ordered i'll post their performance
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 08:31:41 AM by willib »
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windstuffnow

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 09:35:03 AM »
  Hi Willib,

    I took out the 1F caps and replaced them with a bank of 140F 2.5v caps in series or about 20F capacity at 17.5 volts.   It's been an ongoing experiment.   Still saving my pennies to get some of the 2600F caps to experiment with.  


    I found the caps will absorb gusts quicker than the batteries will.   Kind of a delayed charging where the caps will charge to 17volts or so in a gust and when it dies down the caps will continue to charge the battery with the excess until it reaches battery voltage.  This doesn't take very long of course.


   I've only had them connected to my rooftop Lenz2 turbine but it's kind of strange watching the meters.   A gust of wind without the caps the amps would rise to 5 or more and simply fall off.   With the caps in place the amps would rise to about 7 amps and hang on the 5 for a bit before dropping off.  


   If you connect a high Farad cap bank to the wind turbine directly( through a rectifier of course) it really boggs it down until their charged.  The bank of Boostcaps I have will suck 50 amps from the battery to charge them initially so I ended up isolating them through a diversion controller set pretty low ( about 12.6 ).  


   Another use I've found, which works extreemly well with small turbines for charging ni-cads NiMh batteries is adding in a secondary bank of caps which will charge up fairly fast then use the output through a regulator to charge them.  I use my oddball doubler in that system so if the turbine is turning ( even slightly ) it will charge my small batteries all the time.  It's quite easy getting 1 amp at 1.5 volts ( only 1.5 watts ) but it charges them fairly fast in the slightest breeze.   Basically if I have a 2-3 mph wind my nicads are charging.  The wind can go up and down bringing the caps from 5-15 volts but the small batteries will charge continuously from the caps.   You really don't need much of a turbine, size wise, to charge nicads depending on their capacity.  Most are 1000mah or there about so 1 hour at 1 amp and their done.   I have a few 3800mah NiMh which take a bit longer depending on the wind.


Lots of fun!

« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 09:35:03 AM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

AbyssUnderground

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 10:37:28 AM »
Sounds like these big caps are extreamly good for wind setups then :-)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 10:37:28 AM by AbyssUnderground »

richhagen

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 11:28:57 AM »
They are more efficient storage, but are way too pricey still for practical application in a large system.  They would last much longer, but for the price of an equivelant system, you could replace the batteries every year off of the interest money one would receive by putting the difference in pricing in the bank.  


A 2600 farad capacitor at 2.7 Volts stores only 9477 Joules of energy.  If your string can take energy from the capacitors from full charge voltage to half of that, say from 59.4V to 29.7V for a 48V equivelant string, then you would only be able to recover exactly 75% of the energy stored or 7107.75 Joules.  Most inverters and other equipment would be even more restrictive, say full voltage down to 40 volts for a 48V nominal system.  


Now, one 6 volt golf cart battery with 225 amp hours of capacity at 6 volts discharged from full to 80% at the 20 hour rate would give you about 45 amp hours at 6 volts, or 972000 Joules by comparison.  One would need 136.75 of the ultra capacitors (provided one could use them down to half voltage) to replace the golf cart battery to have a system of equivelant usage capacity.  


The 2600 farad capacitors were about $75USD in bulk a piece last time I checked, and the golf cart batteries were about $50USD a piece.  136 of the capacitors would cost $10200.00 USD.  At 5% simple interest rate from a CD, one would collect $510USD each year, and could replace the battery equivelant many times over.  Even the greater inefficiency of the batteries does little to compensate for this.  


They are neat toys, but way to pricey.  For use as the only power storage devices in a system, the cost of the labor, need for extreme reliability, or other aspects  would have to justify many times the cost of the battery.  


They are neat toys, but as a sole means of energy storage, I just can not justify them at this point on cost.  That said, I still want some to play with.    Rich

« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 11:28:57 AM by richhagen »
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windstuffnow

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 11:59:54 AM »
  Your right Rich,

    The use as a storage system is way out of range right now compaired to conventional means.  I've found that using them as a "pre-storage" can be cost effective in the extra gains of power that the batteries wouldn't normally absorb.   You don't need a huge capacity to capture it.   It also allows the turbine to run a few volts higher than it would normally run which increases efficiency.  


    I had calculated the number of 2600F caps to replace the battery bank in an electric S10 ( a project I'm collecting parts for but haven't had time to start on as yet ) and the price was extreemly off base for any practical use.   You probably would never need to replace them but it still doesn't justify the cost, at least at todays prices for them.  But, on the other hand a small bank of them matching the battery bank voltage would be cost effective and help prolong the battery life by absorbing the high amp demands for acceleration and could assist in regenerative charging of the batteries.  


   I think as the technology progresses and the prices come down there will be a place for them as storage.  Maybe in the near future?


   For now, they are a fun toy !


.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 11:59:54 AM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

richhagen

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 01:36:33 PM »
I think you are right on the money for the best practical uses for them.  If they can handle the surges, and enable capture of that extra power, or protect the batteries from the maximum amp draws, then a string at the battery voltage would be much more cost effective.  Rich
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 01:36:33 PM by richhagen »
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willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 07:14:34 PM »
yeah they recommend using a resistor or light bulb to get them up to battery voltage before using them.I'm surprized that you didnt arc weld the cables when you touched a full battery to a uncharged 20F string of supercaps.


as for charging smaller cells

 I have found the same thing happening when charging NiCads , NiMH batteries, the current will continue flowing into the batteries from the cap ,even when the wind stops

its a 2.5V 110F Epcos ultracap , with 3 milliOhms ESR, that i've had for a couple of years.


thats why i bought the two new ones , i have to try them on a larger voltage system.

and using boostcaps would be nice , but $77 for two is going to provide a priceless amount of fun .


i like hooking the ammeter between the batteries and the cap watching the gen charge the cap (current in) and then discharge (current out)into the batteries, when there is a lul in the wind.


only a few auctions provide the ESR , this one did not. i guess i was in the mood to take a chance..sigh.

i'm hopeing its not more than a few milliohms

the one i have is 3 milliohms


i couldnt find any data on the 2600F boostcap , i think it got superceded by the 3000F cap.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 07:14:34 PM by willib »
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windstuffnow

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2007, 09:02:16 PM »
  It's been awhile since I visited their site... they have a bunch of new units available now and some are at almost reasonable price.   I purchased mine from Tecate Group, here is their site... http://www.tecategroup.com/ultracapacitors/ultracapacitors.php


  Some of their larger ones have quite a lead time for ordering.   They stock the "C" size caps and the big ones as singles as I was told back when.   I noticed they've come out with a "D" size as well... could be interesting making up a 6 volt flash light with some LED's for them.   Instant charge and last quite a while on a charge.   Looks like more fun to me !


.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 09:02:16 PM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2007, 09:23:09 AM »
I 've been playing around with Low wind Stators . Series caps require load / dump circuits to be effective .  Doubler triplier ....  etc look similar and are just right to sit in single coil or coil segments (my new toys on the bench ). You take a coil segment varying in potential from .5 to 4 volts 50 to 500 rpm patch in a sextet with 5 volt 1 farad memory caps and 4amp diodes( memory caps are cheaper but will let go after a while something the new aero gel caps have overcome ) and the mechanical load runs up and settles into a electric load nicely .A closed loop between the speed of the mechanical available and load adjustment ( currently under test anemometer to wide range regulator /power supply)and your in the house  . Preliminary tests look good >the upside is cheap and simple circuits  being able to max space under the field
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 09:23:09 AM by tecker »

tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2007, 10:01:25 AM »
Downside is DC down the poll and circutry in a High energy environment or maybe 16 awg multiconductor.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 10:01:25 AM by tecker »

tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2007, 11:15:25 AM »
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 11:15:25 AM by tecker »

willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2007, 05:16:38 PM »
i have about ten of those little ones ( button cell caps?)not sure what they are called . want some ?

dont waste your money
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 05:16:38 PM by willib »
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tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2007, 05:43:20 PM »
Yes .Are they 1F 5 volt?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 05:43:20 PM by tecker »

willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2007, 06:02:45 PM »
5.5V & .22F
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 06:02:45 PM by willib »
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tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2007, 06:13:38 PM »
  email


  jwhitlow@tds.net with price and we can go paypal easy enough

« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 06:13:38 PM by tecker »

windstuffnow

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2007, 07:37:46 PM »
Here  are some 1f 5.5v  http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/140910/Super.html


I have a bunch of these, I've used them in a bunch of different combinations.  If nothing else they sure do give you an endless amount of fun experimenting with them.  


Anyone want to go in on an order of the Boostcap 350F units? ( "D" cell size )   Their 22.00 each but if you order more than 10 the price comes down.   I could use 7 of them to make up a 17.5 v pack of 50F and could use a couple more for another project for a total of 9.

.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 07:37:46 PM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2007, 08:43:06 PM »
i suppose i could sell the ones i just ordered

this is their page.


http://www.prestostore.com/catalog.php/tecategroup.com/dt9239/pd30235

« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 08:43:06 PM by willib »
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willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2007, 09:02:43 PM »
tecker i emailed you , but you should consider Eds offer ,

Ed of course i want some.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 09:02:43 PM by willib »
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tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2007, 12:09:32 AM »
Digikey has 10 for 30 bucks or 100 for $235 If any one wants to split a 100 order I'LL pop and we can split it with paypal.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 12:09:32 AM by tecker »

tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2007, 12:23:20 AM »


Ed I'd split a n order of 13 or 14 I need 6 or 7 to to check out. Have you put pulsed dc to them ?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 12:23:20 AM by tecker »

willib

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2007, 12:37:54 AM »
I need six for 15 volts , that should do it for a 12V system ?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 12:37:54 AM by willib »
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tecker

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2007, 06:49:14 AM »
Keep me in the loop if you order I would like 7
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 06:49:14 AM by tecker »

richhagen

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Re: Pyle capacitor
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2007, 03:33:54 PM »
Ed, If you haven't already placed the order, I'd be interested in getting some to play around with.  I'd be happy to send you the money in advance via Paypal, or a check, whichever is better.  I think the savings I'd receive in splitting a bulk order would more than make up for the shipping from you to me.  Rich
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 03:33:54 PM by richhagen »
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