Author Topic: New Security Light Added  (Read 1676 times)

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Brian H

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New Security Light Added
« on: April 01, 2007, 03:15:21 PM »



Another 12v/13w CFL added, doubling the load on my battery. I've turned the light timer down from "dusk-to-dawn" to "8 hrs". I was getting a little concerned after 3 consecutive sunless days, that I might be abusing my battery. The voltage never got so low that the controller shut off the lights, but I am used to seeing the battery voltage "floating" every night when I get home from work. That hasn't happened since I added the extra lamp. I need to get off my duff and get the 3rd solar panel added. There just hasn't been any extra cash these last few weeks for materials. I know the system would benefit from more storage as well, but I'm torn between buying another identical "marine" battery ($70), or just saving my money and buying some "real" deep-cycles. Decisions, decisions...


 Ever get the feeling you are being stalked...?





Cheers!

Brian

« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 03:15:21 PM by (unknown) »

AbyssUnderground

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 11:39:04 AM »
Looks good. What size is your battery and current panels? My setup could never run the light for that long I don't think. There is never enough sun in the day to replace what it used.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 11:39:04 AM by AbyssUnderground »

Brian H

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 01:29:18 PM »
Well, I'm really not sure of the panel ratings. I'm guessing around 50w each. The battery is a WalMart "Everstart deep cycle marine" rated at 875 marine cranking amps/675 cold cranking amps, no amp hour rating. I'm guessing it's around 80ah..? maybe less, I don't know.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 01:29:18 PM by Brian H »

asheets

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2007, 10:02:28 AM »
Good for you!  When I was 1st starting out, I tried to do a similar setup to yours.  A timer for 9pm to 5am lights, 10W of panels, CFLs, el cheapo 300W inverter, and a WalMArt deep cycle battery picked up at auction.  I could keep the setup runnning for a couple of days before the inverter low volt warnings kicked in (the panels were mounted in a a sub-optimal location).


I've since made a few changes -- more panels (mounted on the roof, no less), eliminated the inverter, converted to low voltage lighting.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 10:02:28 AM by asheets »

nothing to lose

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 01:27:47 PM »
HI,

First there is a difference between a Wal-mart marine starting battery and a Walmart DEEP CYCLE. The deep cycle is a black case (not yellow) and 12V 115 amp hrs, costs $55 here when I buy them new plus core charge (take back a scrap yard junk battery! save the $7)


It should be fairly easy to see what you need. 2 13watt lights = 26watts per hour. So 10hrs is 260watts. Divide by 12V that is 21.7amps from the battery per night.


To see what you need from panels divide 260watts by hours of solar insololation for your place per day. Say for me 5 hrs. So 260watts / 5 = 52watts of panels to run a 10 hour night with 26watts of light.


So, a 115amp battery should run 10hrs of lights for about 5.29 days before totally dead with no charging. You should get some charging even on poor cloudy days but not as much as a good day. So you need more solar so a good day can catch up after the bad days.

Being a break even is about 52watts then you should probably have about 75watts available for losses and catch up times.


I think that's about how it would work for me here, you'll need to figure yours out yourself with your numbers.


Personally I think yard lights in the country are nothing but a waste though. I have nieghbors now that use them. Think about this, if you have no neighbors that can see your place a light is NOT detering a burgular, it is helping them!!

 With a yard light at the neighbors place I'll never see a burgular rob them, with no yard light I might see the burgulars flashlight through the trees or hear him trip over a garbage can or such. What's better?

That's why I'll never have a yard light other than to turn it on and off as I want to see something in the yard.


Unless the moon is bright enough, a burgular will either need a flashlight here or trip over junk and make noise, when I see the light or hear the noise the yardlight pops on manually and he will be shot on sight! Otherwise I turn it on and watch the deer in the yard as I want untill I get bored with them then turn the light off and do other stuff.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 01:27:47 PM by nothing to lose »

Brian H

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2007, 05:52:23 PM »
 Thanks for the comments, loser, but I'm not making this up about the battery, that's what it says, right on the battery case: MARINE, TROLLING, STARTING, DEEP CYCLE, RV. Any issues you have with the labeling, you  can take that up with WalMart.

 As far as yard lights being a waste, whatever dude, I don't live in the country, I'm in the suburbs, and outside lights allow me to see much better when looking out the windows at night. They're definitely no substitute for a burglar alarm, but then neither is living in the middle of a trash heap. Not to mention, we spend alot of time out there in the summer, and the lights will definitely come in handy for that. I may well put them on switches eventually, and maybe even motion detectors later on. But for right now, the whole purpose of this experiment is to learn a little about solar panels, batteries, charge controllers, etc. So for now, I'll leave them on auto, if that's all right with you?

 Some free advice: Shooting someone on sight will more than likely land you in prison, especially if you brag about it beforehand.


Cheers!

Brian

« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 05:52:23 PM by Brian H »

RP

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2007, 08:26:04 PM »
Wow, that's a pretty strong response to someone that was trying to help you.


First you change his name to "Loser" then you seem to be upset that he pointed out that you don't have a true deep cycle battery.  Sorry but a deep cycle starting battery is not the same thing.  You have a hybrid battery, not a true deep cycle.  With that battery you want to avoid taking it below 50% charge.  A real deep-cycle would be okay down to 20% charge.


Although he gave his opinion about yard lights in his situation, I didn't see where he said anything about your situation or what would be appropriate for you.


I don't know NTL from Adam but he's been helping people here for a long time.  I guess I get aggravated when  I see a post like this.  Some free advice:  Lay off the coffee.


rp

« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 08:26:04 PM by RP »

nothing to lose

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2007, 10:55:04 AM »
Sorry to have got on your wrong side some-how dude.


I did not say you were wrong about your battery, I know exactly what battery you have.

I was pointing out a better battery is also a cheaper battery if you plan to buy another one. You might want to save a few dollars and get a better product for the job it's intended for. I know the deepcycle battery I mentioned with the black case is 115amphrs and costs less (here), works well. We don't now what the amphours are on the yellow case battery though and it costs more, at least at the Walmarts I been too.

I do know my Yellow battery was not as good as my black battery, which is why I don't buy the yellow for this type of use myself. I can't test the Yellow because it's wore out now, several years old, one of the oldest I had that was bought new. Mostly I used it as a starting battery and such, not wind or solar.


You are the one that is not sure on a few things, and I just offer help from experence. Since I don't know the exact numbers that would apply to you there I gave you the figures for me here, so you fill in your own numbers and figure it the same way to see what you need for your area.


You said, " I'm torn between buying another identical "marine" battery ($70), or just saving my money and buying some "real" deep-cycles."


 The black case one IS a real deep-cycle and it costs $55 here plus tax.

Also I mentioned to be nice, if you don't have a dead battery to take back they charge the core charge, here that is $7, buy any junk battery at a scrap yard for $1-$2 to take in to save the core charge. May not be worth your time if only buying one battery, if buying several batteries it might save you $10 or more.


You said "The battery is a WalMart "Everstart deep cycle marine" rated at 875 marine cranking amps/675 cold cranking amps, no amp hour rating. I'm guessing it's around 80ah..? maybe less, I don't know. "


You are probably right or close, so for less money you can get maybe 35amps more? And the black case deepcycle should last longer also. I figured it up for you that the black case battery should run your 26watts for 5.3 days with no charging. Actaully it will probably run longer since battery amps are normally figured at a 20 hour rate. So if you run the battery dead over 20 hours you should get 115amps from it. The faster you drain it the less amps you will get and the slower you drain it the more amps you should get. So a 115 amp battery should provide 5.75amps for 20hrs steady. If you run 20amps an hour you will get much less than 115 amps total, and at 2amps per hour you should get allot more total amps. Heck that one 115amp battery might run your 26watts for 10days from a full charge to totaly dead in your use? About 8 hours on at 2amps, 16 hours resting time?


You also said, "I'm really not sure of the panel ratings. I'm guessing around 50w each." also "I need to get off my duff and get the 3rd solar panel added."


So you have 2 panels, maybe 50watts each, so you should have 100watts? I don't know what your average sun is for charging with 100 watts. But I think I figured it up for you that about 5hours solar insololation should cover 10hours a night with 52watts of panels? Then you need some extra wattage to cover battery loses, and after a day or more of little sun then you need to catch back up agian when the sun does shine, so that takes extra wattage above your nightly use. So my geuss based on 5hours is about 75watts should be good for 10hrs of nightlight. If you have about 100watts as you seem to think, then you should have plenty of panels (based on 5hours) so it would look like the weak point is your battery perhaps. If you only have 1hour insolation then the weak part may be not enough panels, you'll need to look up the solar insolation for your area to see how many hours you should have there.


If a good sunny day or 2 charges up your battery full after a few cloudy days, then you probably have enough solar, adding more won't help since once the battery is full no more can be stored and the panels are just shut off by the controller. Of course if your battery is never reaching full charge then more solar would help.


If your in the suburbs you probably have neighbors around that might be able to see your place, in that case a yard light at night is good because a neighbor might see someone stealing your lawnmower or such at 2am or crawling through a house window.

I simply stated that if in the country (like here and many of us) if no-one can see your house the yard light is not providing the security it would in a city. Since I know of about 50 such places just around here on back roads that is a valid observation that many people  do not think about.  I don't know where you live or really care. Lots of other people will also be reading this thread and some of them may realize their light is not as usefull as they thought, living out in a rural area 2 miles from the nearest house.


A trash heap is handy when you need odd parts and live 20 miles from the nearest store :)

 I just pulled the head bolts from a junk engine and turned them on the lathe to make other parts, beats driving a 40mile round trip and paying $5-$10 for raw stock if I could even find it. For most things it's a 100mile or 150 mile round trip to a bigger town to buy parts. So junk heap saves time and lots of money, Now when I have time to get the pistons out :)


Depends where you live, some places still have laws on the books that gives a land owner the right to shoot treaspassers. I geuss really I might be nice about it and the first shot would be a close miss for a warning, unless it looks like he has a weapon, then the first shot would be a good hit. I probably could not get by with that in Dallas or Chicago, but here I can and it's legal :)


Expressing an intent will not get you in trouble in general, posting a sign treaspassers will be shot is fine and in some areas even required.

 Posting a sign John XXXX will be shot, now that would get you in trouble as premeditated perhaps.


Anyway it's great you have an interest in solar and nothing wrong with yard lights if you want them or need them, have at it. It's a great thing to have an interest in something, I by no means want to deter you.

 As a mater of fact if you want all night lights in the yard, you could use a grid powered light with a light sensor near your Solar CFLs. At night when the Solar lights are on the grid powered will be off, when the solars are off the grid powered will turn on.


 Myself I live in the country where I don't want them so I use my solar for more usefull things for me here, like lights in the house where I do need them myself and then I turn off the grid powered lights and save money on the grid bill.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 10:55:04 AM by nothing to lose »

Brian H

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2007, 04:56:04 PM »
OK, Sorry NTL,

 I guess I was tired and grumpy when I read your post, and it struck me as condescending. I was a little(?) harsh in my reply. I definitely could have been more diplomatic. I'm a little embarassed, actually. ;) I actually DO appreciate your insights, and I'm glad you had enough patience with me to respond thoughtfully, and not turn this into a flame war, you are a gentleman and a scholar! ;)

 I hope there's no hard feelings. I certainly don't have any.

 I have been googling this battery (MAXX-29)quite a bit, and have found some second-hand info on it, that seems somewhat reliable. I found 2 references to it on boards similar to this, one poster stated that it was a 125 AH battery, and another mentioned 120 AH. I don't think our local WalMart had any of the batteries you're talking about, but I'll check the next time I'm there. But I'm sure I would have seen it if they had it, I spent a lot of time checking them all out.

 I've pretty much made up my mind to get some T-105's when the next bonus check comes out, probably 2 to start with, and maybe another 2 by mid-summer when I hope to be converted over to a 24 volt system, we'll see how that works out, lol...

 Take care bro,

BrianH
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 04:56:04 PM by Brian H »

nothing to lose

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2007, 08:39:25 PM »
No problem, it happens, we all have a bad day at times, I have a few myself.


I was working near the black case batteries I was talking about and looked at them.

 They are deepcycle but do say Marine on them also, but they are not the daul purpose starting batteries like the yellow case ones. I don't know for sure but I dought the yellow are 120amphrs, but they could be I geuss?

I think most of Wal-marts batteries might be made by Exide, I looked quick but don't see any info for the EverStart brands.


T105 trojans are great batteries. For the golf cart and high fast drain uses they are often considered 105amps, but getting into the 20hr rate they are a 200amp battery. So for RE use a bank of T105's should be about a 200amphr bank, unless you run big heavy loads like I have done. 5,000watt inverter running a lathe, wire welder, grinder, etc..

at an off grid house for awhile. Even ran a 1500watt hot plate making alcohol fuel a couple times so I was putting big loads on mine.


If you have a golf cart dealer around you might be able to get good used ones cheap. I can buy T105's used for about $10, people who own golf carts and the golf courses don't want carts to be stuck with dead batteries on the 17th hole. So batteries are often replaced even though nothing wrong with them. A little pulse charging to get rid of sulphates and with our mostly low amp uses the used ones work like new ones most the time.


If you have to depend on batteries to run a whole house you mght want new ones, but like me I am happy with the cheap used ones for non-critical uses. 8 used T105s for $80 or 1 new for $70? I buy the used ones myself.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 08:39:25 PM by nothing to lose »

Brian H

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2007, 06:34:14 PM »
Nice troll, I'm not biting.

 Have a nice day!

BrianH
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 06:34:14 PM by Brian H »

Brian H

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2007, 07:08:13 PM »
 What I've been able to find on the web, which as I said before, is secondhand information, leads me to believe that the Everstart brand are made by Johnson Controls. Hard to say for sure, since the www.everstart.com website no longer exists.

 Do the black batteries have a model #?

 Used Trojans...? yuck! LOL Actually, that's good advice, I'll look into that. I'll probably get a couple new ones to start with, so I know what a good one acts like. My first inverter came today, a 1500w/3000w Cobra mod sine wave, so I'll be playing with that this weekend.

 Cheers!

BrianH
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 07:08:13 PM by Brian H »

nothing to lose

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Re: New Security Light Added
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2007, 02:36:59 PM »
I been busy moving into on old trailer with stuff the last couple weeks and still, so not around much.


I have not bought an Everstart for awhile, I think mine say made by Exide but the site does not show them. You know how things go, brands keep the same name but often switch manufacturores to just who ever is cheapest this week. I'll try to remember to look for the model number, it's probably on them, not easy to get to them now though.


New Trojans are good to have. I use (and abuse) allot of batteries so I like the cheap used ones myself. I haul some around in a truck for mobile use and such also. Always better for me to ruin a couple $10 ones than $70 ones. I don't ruin many but I know they have a shorter life than they should for the abused ones!


That happens when you bounce them around in a truck bed through the woods to run an electric chainsaw on an inverter and a coffee pot and such :)

« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 02:36:59 PM by nothing to lose »