Author Topic: Dump Control / LVD Circuit  (Read 75170 times)

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South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit 24V
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2007, 03:18:03 AM »
I am busy assembling one of these kits for a 24V dump load.  Can someone confirm or correct the component values to use?  I want to cut in at 27.8V.


R1        8.1K or 8.2K

R2        3.3K?

R3        51K

R4        ?

R5        10K?

RX        22K

C1        10uF

C2        Small...?

ZD1        14V? 1Watt

ZD2        14V? 1Watt

ZD3        16V? 1 Watt


Where C2 is the extra capacitor in the same holes as the extra Zener ZD3.

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« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 03:18:03 AM by South Easter »

South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2007, 03:26:56 AM »
So could this setup be used to solve the problem of running 12V appliances with a 24V system? (by running 24V to the point of demand, and then having a box with a small 12V battery and a circuit in LVC mode)


If so, could the 12V battery by replaced with a big capacitor?

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« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 03:26:56 AM by South Easter »

South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit 24V
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2007, 05:47:39 AM »
Here it is so far....





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« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:47:39 AM by South Easter »

TomW

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2007, 10:03:10 AM »
Easter;


Well, its a hack that I would use because I do not care if it is not efficient.


Think of it this way. you have a 24 volt source [in my case, batteries] You actually need 12 volts charge put into other batteries. By feeding the 24 volts thru a resistance [12 volt bulb] into the 12 volt batteries you effectively drop the 24 volt source across the resistance. The resistance consumes roughly half the power [waste] but you charge your batteries. Pretty basic DC circuits 101 stuff. Most would not do this because the losses are pretty substantial. In my case by only doing it when extra power exists it offsets the losses part. The circuit from Glen just does the logic or [deciding].


Thats the basic idea.


And, no, a capacitor in your situation would not likely work. I am a bit reluctant on passing out advice when I don't know the other person's knowledge because there are lots of "gotchas" that need to be understood and I cannot type that all out unless I know the other persons limitations of knowledge.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 10:03:10 AM by TomW »

South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit - 24V components
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2007, 04:09:53 PM »
To help those trying to set up for 24V, here are the components I have used successfully.  Many thanks to ghurd for his help!


R1    10K

R2    3.3K

R3    51K

R4    100 Ohm

R5    10K

RX    51K

C1    10uF

C2    Tiny

ZD1    18V 1Watt or 1/2

ZD2    5.1V 1Watt or 1/2

ZD3    14V or 13V 1 Watt

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 04:09:53 PM by South Easter »

South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2007, 04:19:08 PM »
I am thinking of connecting this circuit directly to the leads coming down the pole.  The reason for this is that I have a battery disconnect switch, so its useful to be able to disconnect the battery and know that the dump controller will prevent overspeed.  Same logic applies if for some reason either battery fuse blows (I have two fuses, one in the battery bank, and one in the connection box).  And again if a connection fault isolates the battery from the generator.


I have read about how the dump circuit 'must' be connected directly to the battery, and i understand about how separate voltage monitoring wires are needed that dont carry the main dump current because of voltage drop.


But dumping direct from the generator... seems to have advantages, and I cant see any major problem with it.  Under heavy current the dump controller will then see more voltage than the battery sees, and if anything, will begin to dump a bit too early when the wind is blowing hard and the battery is flat (and hence drawing lots of current).


Please comment!

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 04:19:08 PM by South Easter »

South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2007, 04:51:11 PM »
Hi Tom.  Why put it through a resistor at all?  Cant the LVC circuit just disconnect and reconnect so quickly that it appears to be a nice charging voltage for the 12V battery?


And a cap is really just a very (very) small battery... which is what made me think of it.  I am trying to think of a scenario in which you wouldn't need 12V batteries - u just run your 12V stuff from a LVC circuit direct from the 24V. The idea of the cap is to smooth things out a bit.


(My knowledge is self taught electronics.  I know enough to make smoke! But dont worry, I wont act on any advice without double checking everything... and wont blame you when it blows up!)

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 04:51:11 PM by South Easter »

South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2007, 06:01:26 AM »
Here it is:








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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 06:01:26 AM by South Easter »

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2007, 06:17:41 AM »
It can be very stressful on the windmill, more so if the circuit is operating quickly.

The items used to short the windmill would be very expensive.

G-
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 06:17:41 AM by ghurd »
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South Easter

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2007, 08:33:09 AM »
Here is the finished(?) box.  The impulse test switch connects a 1K resistor across the centre pin of the ZM and the bottom of ZD1.  The divert allows the current through the dump to be measured (or an additional load to be connected in series).  The two 12V 50W downlights (in series - 24V system) on the left are the current dump load.  The on/off switch allows the circuit to be off, to avoid the small drain on the batteries.





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« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 08:33:09 AM by South Easter »

ruddycrazy

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2008, 03:15:42 AM »
Hiya Guy's,

          I just did a search on the ZM33064 and found the zetex site said it was obselete. Anyway after further searching I found the chip is also used as a brown out detector for Uc's and there are other chips also suitable.


Panasonic MN13811-S (Open Collector)

Panasonic MN1381-S (CMOS)

Motorola MC33064P (Open Collector)


 So it looks like any of those chips can also be used if the ZM33064 becomes hard to get


Cheers Bryan

« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 03:15:42 AM by ruddycrazy »

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2008, 07:22:49 AM »
I still have 2000 of the Zetex.


The Panasonics are too sloppy.

G-

« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 07:22:49 AM by ghurd »
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JimmyZ

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2008, 09:26:29 PM »
How do I get one of these circuits?Very cool.Tnx.

Jim. (jimmyz2k at yahoo dot com)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 09:26:29 PM by JimmyZ »

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2008, 06:19:05 AM »
Ghurd1 <at> yahoo <dot> com


Put Controller in the subject.

G-

« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 06:19:05 AM by ghurd »
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snowcrow

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2008, 09:03:34 AM »
  Ghurd, I'm adding in a 12V 600W hot water heating element as part of my dump load and want to know if I can run the SSR remotely and draw off the feed already going to my camper? The hot water tank is about 16ft or so from the electrical.


  The Hot water heater in the camper is about 10 gallons, and I was also thinking of using a SPDT snap disc between the controller and SSR to switch the controller output to energize another SSR to dump power when the water reaches 120F.


  Is idea a sound one?


Snow Crow

« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 09:03:34 AM by snowcrow »

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2008, 12:56:30 PM »
Sounds OK to me.

No reason the wire from the controller to the SSR can't be long.

The SSR will make a lot of heat too.  Might look into also using the SSR heat for the water, somehow.


Might think about an IGBT instead of an SSR.  But anything carring that much current is going to get hot.

G-

« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 12:56:30 PM by ghurd »
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snowcrow

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2008, 06:01:21 AM »
 Thanks ghurd, a IGBT is my best bet for that kind of amps.  Hopefully I'll get some pictures of this project posted soon, I'm using film now because I killed my cheap digital camera with a static charge while picking it up! }:o( OH WELL!!!


Blessings, Snow Crow

« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 06:01:21 AM by snowcrow »

snowcrow

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2008, 08:54:26 AM »
  Thanks for all your help those last few weeks on my IGBT remote dump load project, Ghurd!!!  It's working out just fine so far, NO magic blue smoke has escaped yet and I don't think it will any time soon!!





 For anyone interested in the full story:


 http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/3/31/141234/584


Blessings, Snow Crow

« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 08:54:26 AM by snowcrow »

snowcrow

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2008, 07:22:31 AM »
   Hi again Ghurd, do you think it would be at all possible to modify your circuit for 48v?


  The reason I ask is, the regenerative braking on my e-bike needs something to keep from over charging the battery pack on long down hill runs.  It would also create more uniform e-braking, as the battery pack becomes charged.


  Any ideas G ?


Blessings, Snow Crow

« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 07:22:31 AM by snowcrow »

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2008, 08:17:58 AM »
My first thought is "How long are the hills!"


Possible I guess, but not very efficient.

Or maybe efficient, but maybe not as accurate.  Not sure how accurate it needs to be.

E me,

G-

« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 08:17:58 AM by ghurd »
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electroman

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2010, 03:47:37 PM »
Hi! I'm new on this forum and sorry for reopening old post.
I need little help, i want to make this circuit but i dont know what is the little blue box on the board:

TomW

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2010, 04:36:23 PM »
Hi! I'm new on this forum and sorry for reopening old post.
I need little help, i want to make this circuit but i dont know what is the little blue box on the board:

electroman;

That is a multi turn 5 K potentiometer. In the schematic it is the one that adjusts the voltage setpoint.


Glen might pop in and explain. His website with much info is over here: http://www.ghurd.info/

And, I would like to report my Ghurd Dump Load Controller modified for 24 volts to drive some big IGBT bricks is working fabulously.. It dumps about 40 amps and can regulate my bank easily keeping it between 28.6 and 28.8 volts with a KW coming in. So you folks at 24 volts can use it, too.
This is the load (4 .800 ohm power resistors in series / parallel for a .800 ohm load. Yeah, I know its actually 1037 watts at 28.8 volts:



More when I get time.


Tom

Rover

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2010, 08:28:21 PM »
I van think of quite a few post , this is one of the few I'm happy to see brought back to the surface
Rover
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ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2010, 01:04:41 AM »
Hi Electroman,

Tom is correct.
It is specifically a 5K multi turn pot.
It is very important to be 5K. It is very important to be multi turn of at least 10 turns.
There is a lot more happening in there than just a voltage divider, and if it is not correct the rest of the data will not apply.

If a substitute "ZM" is used, all the data will not apply.
Naturally, they stopped making the ZM shortly after I posted the original story.  And I just found out there were a few ZMs left in Australia, but the guy who told me bought the last of them, as far as I can tell.

If you want to make the circuit, it may be a good idea to get the kit.
The board makes it easier.  The total cost is less than sourcing the parts yourself.
G-
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electroman

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2010, 01:33:44 PM »
I thought so...and i know that this is very important componenent but i have never seen element like this. :)
I want to buy this part, can you tell me is this one correct ? (last on the page) http://kelco.rs/katalog/komponente.php?IDgroupweb=359

Almost to forget...i can't find zm33064 which one i can use like replacement?

Thanks guys for help!

electroman

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2010, 01:35:51 PM »
hohoh, 1037 watts? Omg..
I want to make windmill from amatek motor 30v, so i don't need this monster. :D

TomW

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2010, 01:50:05 PM »
hohoh, 1037 watts? Omg..
I want to make windmill from amatek motor 30v, so i don't need this monster. :D

Well with 850 watts of solar and a turbine that has already made bursts of 1600+ watts intermittently in mediocre winds I need to be able to waste over that amount to protect my batteries.  In my case I really should have the ability to dump 2KW should a storm drive my turbine at high output with or without solar coming in.

I have no doubts this turbine could be capable of up near 4 KW under extreme conditions. (see DanBs report on driving a similar unit to that level with his Volvo as a power source). My batteries can theoretically absorb several hundred watts for a long time with no issues on overcharging but you need to design for worst case scenarios.

Tom

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2010, 02:59:56 PM »
I thought so...and i know that this is very important componenent but i have never seen element like this. :)
I want to buy this part, can you tell me is this one correct ? (last on the page) http://kelco.rs/katalog/komponente.php?IDgroupweb=359

Almost to forget...i can't find zm33064 which one i can use like replacement?


The 5K will work.

There are several almost similar replacements, but they all act quite differently.
Some are made to sloppy tolerances and do not always behave in predictable way.
Some have considerable internal differences requiring many changes to the part values in the rest of the circuit.
It would require a lot of experimentation to get a circuit using a replacement part working properly.

Considering your limited experience, I would suggest buying the entire kit from me.
It has the parts, and is cheaper than getting them elsewhere.

Would you happen to be in Croatia?
G-
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Bruce S

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2010, 03:26:37 PM »
hohoh, 1037 watts? Omg..
I want to make windmill from amatek motor 30v, so i don't need this monster. :D
This is what it's capabilities are, other are using it as 12Vdc dump controller.
I use a couple of them as dis-similar battery chemistry charging and I'm pretty sure they'll not see this kind of power unless the sun goes SuperNova.

Generally in 12Vdc setup and 1 FET it'll easily handle 100w dump.

Cheers;
Bruce S

A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

naveenck

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2010, 02:23:54 AM »
Hello Ghurd,

I am trying to build a charge controller for a wind-like power source. I understand this circuit will work as a charge controller to charge a Lead Acid battery regulating the input voltage/current from the wind turbines. I want to know if my understanding of the intention of the circuit is correct.

Also, I would really appreciate if I could get a block diagram of Wind power turbine, Dump control/LVD circuit, battery and the dump load all connected together for better understanding.

Thanks in advance,
Naveen

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2010, 10:35:15 AM »
Naveen,

A controller suitable for wind does not generally regulate the input voltage or current.

A dump or diversion controller regulates the battery voltage.
If the battery voltage becomes too high, the controller sends some Battery Power to a dump load to keep the battery voltage under control.

The controller does not care if the power comes from wind, solar, hydro or anything else.  It only cares the battery is over voltage.

Schemes that short the wind turbine, or send all of the wind turbine power to resistors who's values can not be calculated, are not a great idea.

Block diagram:
The turbine / solar / hydro is charging the battery.
Controller is monitoring the battery voltage.
Controller turns on the dump load when the battery voltage is at the set maximum voltage.

It would look something like this,
http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww20/ghurd1/Stray%20Pics/ControllerPhotoShop2.jpg

G-
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naveenck

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2010, 01:43:38 AM »
Hello Ghurd,

Thanks a lot for the reply !

As I understand, monitoring the battery voltage means if 12V battery voltage output is 12.2V (or any limit I set) or higher, then the extra power coming from the sources (solar, wind, etc) are diverted to the Dump Load.

When you say monitoring battery voltage, do you mean Battery's output (12V) or Charging voltage (input from Panel/Wind turbine, etc) ?

I ask this question because, the wind turbines could generate voltages of up to 40V peak and connecting this directly to the battery may damage the battery.

Does the Load controller circuit (Ghurd controller) handle this additional voltage above the typical charging voltage of 14.4V needed to charge a 12V Lead Acid Battery ?

Please do respond. Your response is highly appreciated.

Thanks much !
Naveen

ghurd

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Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2010, 10:00:57 AM »
The turbine is ALWAYS connected directly to the battery.

The dump load uses Battery power.

The turbine connected to the battery will be at the battery voltage.
If it is connected to the battery, it can not be anything except the battery voltage.
This fact is known as "KVL".

Because the turbine is ALWAYS connected directly to the battery, there is no 40V to be concerned with.

G-
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller