Author Topic: Vawt progress VIDEO (Read 4384 times)

CmeBREW · « **on:** August 30, 2007, 01:55:00 AM »

I just figured out how to use "YouTube.com" to show the progression on the 41" diameter by 5 feet high VAWT I've been making. I am pretty excited about it. Sorry about the poor resolution-- we are trying to figure out the camera.

The generator is not in it yet. I 'jumped the gun' on mentioning it gives me lighting and TV. But I believe it WILL really soon! (next week)

The wind was only about a 8-10mph breeze. Today, when I took this with my brother's camera, the weather people called it only a "light and variable" wind day.

Each blade weighs quite a bit though,, close to 14Lbs. (42 lbs. all 3)

After the alternator is in there,(hopefully early next week) it will be over a 100lbs. spinning! The weight just keeps adding up! So I must keep the speed down under 300rpm (hopefully) using the alternator.

I also added a couple of thin steel 'Y- braces' on each blade for extra support.

It goes much faster, but I don't want it to fly apart before I get the alternator in there. Right now, the rotor is just 'free-spinning'-- but with ALOT of good TORQUE.

I will keep you posted on the progress real soon!

Heres the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9QI8lVBOmI

TomW · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2007, 09:54:12 PM »

CM;

Haha, I see you slipped in a slam on the HAWT along with the misleading "gives me lighting and TV" bit.

The question becomes "Why"?

Well, it is your Diary and I will leave it at that.

Cheers.

TomW

windstuffnow · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:01:57 PM »

Nice Job! Looks familiar... What did you use for the wings that made them so heavy? If you can make them lighter they will respond to the wind better.

Keep up the great work! Looking forward to hearing about the alternator and how it performs.

.

CmeBREW · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2007, 06:58:09 AM »

TOM,

Knew I'd hear something about that one! I didn't mean to slam the HAWT. I LOVE the Hawt! I said ;"the SMALL Hawt" like a 4 footer. (primaririly my own!) I don't think a small 4 footer will do anything in an 8-10mph breeze. Mine only ran 3 stinkin times all summer! But I did FIB though--sorry bout that. I seems like a 'sure thing' though. Its like someone pedalling a bicicle and so I know it will do something good!

Besides, Everyone else gives outrageous, exaggerated, misleading claims on the internet. I just wanted to do my share!

CmeBREW · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2007, 08:27:34 AM »

Yeah, I think your right. I was able to change it to "should get me" and took off the Hawt implication. I just said it off the top on my head in a second. I actually HATE misleading crap myself! -Sorry, guess I was overly excited last night.

CmeBREW · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2007, 10:30:14 AM »

Thanks Ed,

YOur right, the blades are very heavy. They probably won't stay on long when a big gust and the resulting CF hits it. That 1/2" baltic birch plywood is heavy stuff. Plus the PVC is a couple of pounds each. By the time I painted 3 coats of paint on them, the weight just keeps going up. Still, I wonder if weight actually HELPS in torque in the lower winds? (sorta like a train going down the road instead of a Yugo) I'm not sure.

I'm having a problem finding sheet metal for a decent price is why I went ahead and used some plywood I had on hand. I am definitely going to remake the blades similar to your LENZ2 but with thin sheet metal so I can paint it this neutral color. I've always had terrible results with trying to paint aluminum sheet especially if it flexes. The aluminum paint comes off in no time and it looks horrible.

I will be making a 18ga. test coil this weekend, and I was going to email you for your opinion on the stator I'm making. Your quess is much better than mine. All I can find to compare is your vawt alternator. I HOPE my alternator will be as strong. We'll see what it does- its just 'trial and testing'! Figuring out how to shut this thing down in the stronger wind gusts is probably going to be the biggest problem. I don't want the blades to 'fly South for the winter'. I will keep my 'trusty' small 4 footer up, just in case they do. It still does pretty good in the winter months.

No matter what though, ANY windmill project is very intriguing!

feral air · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:19:06 PM »

"Still, I wonder if weight actually HELPS in torque in the lower winds?"

I doubt it.

Heavier blades will take longer to spin up, requiring more wind power to do so, and it will need a longer wind duration to get up to cruising speed. Think semi truck vs car...

It takes a lot more power and time for the truck to get to 55mph than it does for a light car. The truck has much more torque but guess where it's going; to the tires, to get it up to speed. Same with your vawt.

I would use aliminum and take a really-fine-grit sand paper to it. Lightly sand the surface in one direction (whichever way the wind goes) to get rid of any shininess. Then I'd probably wax it and just hope it doesn't blind people. Or you could probably have it anodized - expensive but purdy.

windstuffnow · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:51:23 PM »

I agree with feral air, weight makes a considerable difference in performance with these units. If it has to waste time putting energy into the "flywheel" then chances are you missed a good portion while it was doing so. If it can respond quickly to the differences in wind you'll extract much more of the energy available.

Painting aluminum is pretty easy when you use the right stuff. There is a self etching primer just for aluminum. You scuff up the surface and shoot it with the primer and it etches into the metal. Then you can paint it any color you want. I used to purchase it at our local auto parts supplier that also had a automotive paint section. Never had any come off and we used it mostly for painting aluminum aircraft coverings, bodies and parts.

Aluminum flashing works well for small turbines but is pretty thin for any long spans of un reinforced area. There is some .060 PVC sheet out there that is very easy to work with, its the softer kind - not rigid like the pipe. I've worked with that stuff for covering and it's quite durable and strong. Reasonably priced as well. It can also be bent in a brake for clean edges.

.

vawtman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2007, 05:02:27 PM »

Tom give Brew a break his hawt blades were less than ideal also but he is brewin at least.

Havin FUN also.

CmeBREW · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:18:26 PM »

Yes, I will make new blades much lighter with aluminum or possibly this PVC sheeting you mention. I've never seen that. Whats its purpose and where do I get it?. And how can you 'bend' PVC plastic in a sharp edge without it simply snapping in two?? Are you using a heat gun or some form of magic?

No wonder I had bad results painting aluminum,,I used NORMAL metal primer. I probably picked the one that was cheaper.

That explains alot.

I will still test with the heavy plywood blades though. Might learn somethin' new.

I already knew that that plywood wouldn't last too long anyway. Its not made with waterproof glue. I don't know about you, but Its getting MUCH harder to find basic materials without being reamed up the wazoo these days! For months I've been looking for a place with a decent price on fine thread 1/2" nuts. There is no such place anymore. Wound up having to pay .20 cents each nut at some rip-off hardware store. It use to be a dollar a pound! Talk about "having you by the nuts" !!

Thanks guys.

vawtman · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:26:13 PM »

Brew

I used pvc coated aluminum trim coil available at the Home Depot types.Brown on one side white on the other but will accept any color you want.

windstuffnow · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:31:28 PM »

The PVC sheet is called "Sintra PVC" and is sold in some pretty thin stuff. It's very flexible and is easy to work with. I purchased mine from USPlastics. Here is a link to the Sintra http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=115&pr
oduct%5Fid=10432

On the hardware, bolts and nuts and stuff try http://www.use-enco.com , they have a good selection of different fasteners and sell them in packs of 100 or more.

You can use regular primer after the metal has been etched. Some simple muratic acid will etch the aluminum. Be careful though, only wipe it on with a rag dampened with the acid. Muratic acid will turn a good piece of aluminum into nothing but hydrogen and some by products. Once etched wash it down with soap and water and let it dry, shoot it in regular primer and it will stay on there.

.

CmeBREW · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:37:10 PM »

Thanks guys --sounds really good.

feral air · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2007, 07:44:02 PM »

From the Sintra page; "For interior signage only."

I wonder what that means. Does it fall apart when exposed to the sun? I guess if you plan to paint it anyway, it should be ok. And if windstuffnow recommeds it then it must be good.

Fiberglass sheeting may be another option. We got a roll of fiberglass for the walls of our greenhouse about 8 years ago and it's held up really well over the years. So well that it took a decent softball hit a few months ago and the ball bounced back a fair distance. It seems impervious to UV so far.

I think what we used was specifically for greenhouses so the cost wasn't too bad - and it's much stronger than the similar looking roofing material. I did a quick search and the prices I found online for fiberglass sheets seemed to be about the same as the Sintra. I know I didn't pay anywhere near that much for what I got but then I got a fairly long roll of the stuff too.

Might be another option worth looking into, I dunno.

windstuffnow · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2007, 09:36:45 PM »

Here is another that I've used, it's thinner and a bit more durable than the Sintra. Its a grey PVC type 1. http://www.sdplastics.com/pvcsheet.html

This one is only 35.00 for a 4x8 sheet. I'm not sure how well it would hold up in hot sunny environments. I've used it to build some smaller models and its held up pretty well. Im using the .060 sheet ( 1/16" ). I don't remember where I purchased it but it was cheap at the time.

I prefere using aluminum on the larger units, its far lighter and much more durable. My 8ft blades were made from .025 6061 T6 aluminum sheet, each weigh about 9 lbs not including the steel center support arm. I haven't had time to finish this turbine as yet...

.

CmeBREW · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:12:11 AM »

Thanks for the Ideas and links!. I am going to look at the aluminum flashing and the roll of pvc coated aluminum flashing next time I 'hitch a ride to town'. Now that I know I can paint it.

Woe Nelly Ed! 8 feet blades--now thats sweet!! Only 9 lbs. each-- Thats amazing. Talk about scooping up the torque. I wonder if you are going to tie the top and bottom of those long blades together? Can't wait to see the output for those and the finished product.

I may just keep the heavy blades I have on mine thru the winter. I think they may last. I caulked the 'end caps'(winglets) on the top so no water can get in to crack the plywood apart. And they are painted with 3 coats of paint.

The blades are usually turning about 30 rpm anyway--and so when a slightly better breeze comes, it only takes 3 or 4 seconds to reach the higher speed anyway because the blades are so big. I think it only misses out on alittle power. But I do want the much lighter aluminum blades I think, so that it can spin faster with a better safety margin.

My magnet wire came yesterday, but quess what, the morons sent me 16ga. instead of the 18ga. I ordered!!! ARG! Thats what happens when they don't WRITE the Gauge on the spool or label. And it looks like they suddenly went out of business. Can't find there website anymore.

So that will set me back awhile.

-Thanks.

CmeBREW · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:37:27 AM »

But I STILL will work on making at least one set of ALUMINUM blades! It gets confusing without writing a novel. You see, I have all the parts to make a SECOND VAWT like the first one-- IF the first one performs decent that is. So I really desire to make TWO VAWTS before wintertime. If I could ever get the right WIRE one fine day!! (First the 'nuts' and now this! -what next?)

CmeBREW · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2007, 05:07:58 PM »

I wonder about this vinyl sheeting stuff: This may be similar to what you mentioned.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=flashing&keyword1=&langId=
-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&onlineStore=true&marketID=401&locStoreNum=8125&
amp;searchBox=%3CSPAN%3ESearch%3C%2FSPAN%3E

I remember my dad flying in an airplane that had CLOTH wrapped around the wings and body! Talk about cheap stuff! Maybe sucure the stuff on the pine wood frame using sheet metal strips and screws??

Talk about cheap! I could make some SERIOUSLY LARGE blades with that stuff!

CmeBREW · « **Reply #18 on:** September 01, 2007, 08:21:53 PM »

That stuff sounded great and almost has me sold-- but I found out that it is only

.015 mil thick. I'm afraid thats pretty thin. Thats only 1/4 th as thick as what Ed mentioned. (.06) No wonder it is cheaper. Thats like paper thin. Home depo may have some I can check out to see how strong it is when I check out the aluminum. I especially like the idea though, that it don't DENT like thin aluminum. Because, no matter how hard I try, I always seem to dent that thin flashing and it shows up like a sore thumb. I also found a good fairly cheap paint at WAKmart called 'Hammertough' or something like that, that says it paints PVC (and plastics) and I got some and it does. (extremely flammable) I mixed two of their colors (dark brown and light grey) and its very close to the treebark (neutral) color I like so much.

Heres the other link about that Vinyl:

http://www.duraflash.net/applications.aspx

Thanks for all the ideas!

vawtman · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2007, 08:23:21 AM »

Dents are good thing they help with lift.LOL

I did a crazy thing yesterday.I put the 4- 8ft blades on the 4ft rotor for the heck of it.Wow does it spin nice although it lost its darrius characteristics due to the extremely high solidity.

May build another set and stack them.

Havin fun.

CmeBREW · « **Reply #20 on:** September 02, 2007, 01:27:22 PM »

VMAN,

So your blades are 8 feet long too! Are those the ones that are 24" wide? WoW! I was wrong about the 4 blades- I understand more now. (I think!) I believe that just gives even MORE torque in low winds, since it looks like 3 blades are pushing forward (for the most part) instead of just 2 with the common 3 blade setup. That sounds really neat! Are you going to keep it like that or go back to the 8 feet diameter?

That sounds like ALOT of torque.

vawtman · « **Reply #21 on:** September 02, 2007, 02:55:44 PM »

Brew, ya they are the same blades.

I think im gonna keep it like this i just need to add another rotor for more support(obviosly) but its performing awesome.Glad i threw em on there.

It runs smoothly in winds the 2 blader would shake the tower and the blades arent balanced yet.

I mounted a torque converter to the shaft to maybe use for a mag rotor.Hmmm

How did you upload the video on youtube? i signed in.

On blade material my uncle is building an airplane from scratch and is using birch veneer.They just moved close by from california.The plane is cool and so are his tools.Yum

CmeBREW · « **Reply #22 on:** September 02, 2007, 04:02:34 PM »

There is a button that said "post video". It then promps to upload from my computer. Thats all I remember.

I'm not too smart on the computer stuff I'm afraid. I only put mine there because I didn't want to waste that much space here at fieldlines, since the limit is 4meg.

I didn't think too many people would find it. I see I was wrong.

I didn't even know the camera was recording audio. My next one will be more 'presentable'.

I see someone put their video on Yahoo. I'm going to look into that. I really don't want 'the world' to see these-- only the members here.

Can't wait to see your video!

CmeBREW · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2007, 08:40:10 PM »

Ok,,, I went to 'Youtube' to see again. There is a button in the upper right corner that says "Upload". I pushed that and filled out the form and uploaded from my files.

They say its 'free'. -hope so

News:

Author Topic: Vawt progress VIDEO (Read 4384 times)