Author Topic: 5 magnet to ten coil ratio  (Read 10791 times)

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JW

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Re: 5 magnet to ten coil ratio
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2007, 06:02:04 PM »
I agree, I think that I will spend sometime thinking about the coils. Ive now just had a chance to re-read the whole thread. Man, there is alot of useful info. You guys are all great. Abig thankyou.


"That last option was an easy one to check and it would indeed work very well using 10 magnets on a 12 pole machine. Would be somewhat on the powerful side for 7ft if very carefully built. You could more or less throw it together and it should come out ok.


Flux

"


 I couldnt ask for more. Except :) just kidding.


 Im definitly going to look into that Flux. At this point, alot is still up in the air. I have made a couple solid steps forward, but Im still weighing all the options. I need to learn more about the poles and there relation with 10 magnets. how the phase arrangment works out with this.


JW  

« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 06:02:04 PM by JW »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: 5 magnet to ten coil ratio
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2007, 06:17:12 PM »
Because of the way your first and third coils overlap you end up doubling the gap and weakening the field.


You'll be ahead if you do a single layer of coils, with the width of each coil's radial runs each being half the width of the magnet face with the gap between magnets also that width.  This "paves" 2/3 of the magnet-swept area and lets each coil be the thickness of the entire gap (minus the physical clearance), rather than half of it, thus collecting twice the power.  You get about 33% more power with this non-overlapping 3-phase setup than the half-thickness stacked kind.


(You can get better paving with the overlapped kind by filling in the gap in the middle of one coil with winds from another.  But it involves coils that are z-shaped when viewed from the edge.  Those are really hard to construct.)


Set the gap between the magnet poles and the opposite rotor to about the thickness of the magnetic material for the best tradeoff of strength vs. room-for-copper.


(To get the geometry dead on you'd need trapezoidial magnets.  But your layout - with the gap at the outer radius of the magnets being about half the width of a magnet face - is a good approximation.  Just treat the little triangle of the magnet that encroaches into the gap as if it wasn't there.)


With a non-magnet-carrying second rotor the field will spread out more than is optimum.  You can prevent this by mounting steel pole-pieces opposite the magnets, with a thickness at least that of the magnets - "faking" the second set of magnets.  Then the field will go pretty much as straight across as it does with magnets on both sides (though using steel instead of more magnets means you don't get the extra flux of the non-existent second set of magnets.)  Of course you still set the gap to about the thickness of the magnet material, which means it's still half the gap you'd use if you had magnets on both sides.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 06:17:12 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

JW

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Re: 5 magnet to ten coil ratio
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2007, 06:36:49 PM »
Thanks for the input URL,


 Im in the process of crunching all this info. Lots of good suggestions, lots to think about.


Woof,


 I was just in the kitchen making some shake-n-bake chicken drumsticks and it hit me.


 Im located in Miami FL. on the southern end towards the florida keys. Ive lived here most of my life. But I did spend sometime working in Huntsville AL. about 2 or 3 months. I thought it was pretty cool there. You can email me anytime, im at flashsteam.com. But I dont check the email as frequently as I visit this site.


:)


JW

« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 06:36:49 PM by JW »

hiker

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Re: 5 magnet to ten coil ratio
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2007, 07:09:36 PM »
you could even try wave winding--like a car alt.

grab a piece of plywood--toss  some pins in it for a coil former[waxpaper the bottom]

then start your winds...pour on some epoxy or what ever your favorite is -then inlay into a piece of plywood..seal again

if your going with 3 separate single phase windings--you most likly will need  lots of turns per phase-to get the volts up..fine wire at that to keep your airgap down..

are you going to parelle the outputs??

   heres a shot of wave winding[3 separte phases]--do half your single phase then double back and finish the phase--looks like indaviuale coils when done..

  ps: looks like more than 3 phases--i added on to some of the phases due to lack of wire in same color..




« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 07:09:36 PM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA

JW

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Re: 5 magnet to ten coil ratio
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2007, 09:24:09 PM »
Thats pretty sweet Hiker,


 Ive been considering several coil arrangements. I have decided Im going to use the single rotor, with the 10 magnets and a passive rotor. In all this discussion about the pole number and spacing of the coils. Im going to have to brush up on actual alternator design. I have this really slick book from TAB publishing all about motor designs using magnets. I moved last year and have not re-assembled my reference library. I think the answers im looking for are in that book. If it wasnt for this discussion, I dont think I would have realized that. One thing that I prize is getting my hands of those rare out of print books. Ive come across them in the strangest places. Like antique stores. I cant believe ive not had these books, that I have collected thru the years, on hand lately.


 Im really inspired by all the projects I read about here. I cant wait to get this machine flying.


 Ive decided I want a picture of(the cartoon) Tom and Jerry on the furling tail.


JW    

« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 09:24:09 PM by JW »

Janne

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Re: 5 magnet to ten coil ratio
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2007, 03:36:49 AM »
i agree with Flux in the powdered iron-core thing. From experience i can say it sucks.

But I've tried silicon steel core with single magnet disc earlier, and it worked very well. It did not create any notable drag, like the powdered iron, and I think it conducted magnetic flux much better too.

My suggestion would be to use the silicon steel core and single disk alternator. A blank secondary disk would be more efficient, but it's way more complicated to build.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 03:36:49 AM by Janne »
Nothing's as easy as drilling a hole in the wrong place