If I start a diary will I get "LOCKED" out?

[flory7]

Well I have been locked out of the "Newbies" page, sorry for not being that quick (smart). Of the motors listed what one is best?

Amps   Encl      HP      Hz         Shft      Rotate      RPM   Volts   Wt.

4. 5    TENV     0.30    50/60      .625       Both        600    115    13
   
6.      TENV      .20     DC        .625       Both        340     36    19
   
2. 7    TENV      .25     DC        .625       Both        1800    90    17
   
8.             1.50   50/ 60      .750      CCW-SE       1500   230    28
   
6. 5    TEXP      .50   50/ 60      .625       Both        650    115    27
   
   

 Of the above motors all being permanent magnet what one is best?

[flory7]

Sorry about the alignment it look corect when I was typing it.

    -Adam

[feral air]

Best for what?

It's kind of hard to read the table, could you repost it? Just remember to preview first.

[Norm]

If you don't get it posted right you won't get

a good answer you have to preview it until it

looks right

 forget about listing it numerically if it don't

work do this instead....and hit return after each

motor....example:

m1........

m2.....

m3.......

etc.

[Slingshot]

If you're asking which would be the best/easiset for constructing a direct-drive wind generator for 12-volt charging applications (you didn't specify, so I chose the commonest application), I'd pick motor #2 (36 volts, 6 amps, 340 RPM).

Motor 3 has specs similar to a treadmill motor, but lower power, and would be my second choice.

All the motors have nice large-diameter shafts for mounting your hub.

Motors 1, 4, and 5 are around the same power rating, but the high-voltage specs tell me they will likely be wound with thin wire.  This will translate to low current output, or inefficiency in most low-voltage charging applications.  Also, since they are AC motors, you will have to rectify the outputs (not a big deal).  Motor #1 is interesting, though.

.

[TomW]

flory7;

Well I have been locked out of the "Newbies" page, sorry for not being that quick (smart).

First. Thats simply not true. One post was locked. Period.

There is no hard limit to the # of stories one can post but 5 in 3 days is too many of the type you asked, in my opinion. It was starting to look like you were dreaming them up simply to ask.

Its not about being quick. Thats your problem. You are too quick to post multiple stories per day rather than do some research. 5 in 3 days. We are desperately trying to reduce the noise level here.

Its not a contest to see who can post the most. You seem to have taken that approach.

Try taking a deep breathe, relax, think things out then post with enough detail to get help.

This Diary is a prime example of a poor post if you expect help.

It starts out complaining about the locked post earlier today. Then some undecipherable text about motors, then a nonspecific overly general question with absolutely no information on what you are actually trying to do. Did you really think anyone could understand it enough to help you?

You need to do some of the work yourself like taking the time to post coherent, legible questions.

Just for your education. No need to respond.

Its your Diary so I will leave it at that.

Try reading THIS to get information on posting to forums.

Just FYI, there is a well known bug in this forum software that keeps folks from responding in comments if punctuation ["] is used in a subject. Most folks will just move on when they get the subject too long error. you have a pair of ["] in yours so unless folks change the subject they can't reply. Don't expect many responses if folks have to muck around and change things like the subject line. Again For Your Information.

Not picking on you just trying to let you understand how to best use this resource to get useful results.

TomW

[flory7]

Thanks Slingshot,

   Appoligies to all about the chart. It looked good when I typed it and now I am too lazy to retype. As you can see I am new to this group and forget that not everyone can read my mind. I just get so cought up that I forget to add my back history of my project. I just get some differnt numbers on what is best for a small wind generator. I am just trying to find a modern replacement for the old AMETEK motors. It does not help that I do not know jack about electricity. I am a ditch digger for a living. I can tare down and rebuild a backhoe, but can't tell the diffence between AC and DC. So to charge a 12V battery I want 24v-36v not 120v-230v?

I am also up for some one on one Basic and slow teaching via flory777@netzero.com I guess I ask too many questions for the regular posting board. Sorry.

    -Adam

[flory7]

Thank you for the constructive thoughts. I appoligize, I have just been stuck in the house do to weather.

  Adam

[ghurd]

What Tom said, twice.

We were talking about suitable motors.  No need to start over.

When you "reply to this", 99% of the time the poster will see it.

When you "post a comment", 99% of the time the author of the story will see it.

Maybe they only check in once a month, so they won't see it either way.

Maybe they don't have anything to say except "I don't know", so they didn't answer.

Maybe they will never come back.  It happens.  A lot.

The number thing is easy to get around... put a lettter at the start of each line.

My choices are...

A 4.5A TENV...

A 6A  TENV...

If you want info about motors as generators, or Ameteks, as windmills, Google it.

A lot.

I would have seen the motor questions.  No need to send one straight at me.  Many people know a lot more than I do.  

It looks like I am smart because I had spare time to answer simple questions. (but it's gotta stop snowing soon)

I thought I answered the motor question earlier.

Look for a DC PM motor.

Next Google 'cut-in RPM'.

The 0.20 HP DC motor looks best to me, for a start.  (notice "THE" before 0.02)

Anything 50/60HZ is not a good place to start.

The (notice "THE" before a number) 0.2HP, 340RPM, 36V has my attention.  Just for fun.  It probably wouldn't be a great generator.  

Never can tell (like the 10 motors we both bought).

You might consider the time better spent at work, at 1.5X.

Buy an Ametek with the extra money.  It can teach a lot of stuff.

Or read your butt off. (cheaper and faster)

An Ametek with a different sticker could say 'who knows what' at 36VDC.

Thats why I bought those 24V-360RPM motors.

If I do not reply, it's because I have no idea what to add.

If I didn't reply to you on another board, it is because I have no idea when someone replies or asks ME a question.

G-

[Slingshot]

For an Ametek-like replacement, look for something that has similar characteristics:

1. Hefty (5/8" or better) shaft diameter for solid hub mounting.
   
2. RPM/voltage combination that will get you about 15 volts out at something like 200-400 RPM.  15 volts will cover the loss in a blocking diode (necessary to keep the battery from running the motor when there's no wind) and still get you up to a high charging voltage in the 14+ range.  The higher the required RPM, the smaller you will need to make the blades to get the speed, and the less power you will be have available for harvest.  As the RPM increases beyond that necessary to begin charging, the battery "clamps" the voltage and just draws more current.  This assumes a very simple system with just a generator, a blocking diode, and a battery.
   
3. Higher current motors, other things being equal, are also better.  They will have thicker gauge wire and less internal resistance, meaning the output voltage will not drop with current load as readily.  Also, many of these motors have a current beyond which the magnets in them will be damaged (demagnetization).
   

[Chagrin]

Motors 1, 4, and 5 don't look like DC motors. Why would a DC motor have a "Hz" rating (not to mention the suspicious 115/230V thing).

[Flux]

There is no harm in being new and enthusiastic.

In reality the requirements for good wind generators are odd. There seems to be a common idea that you start with a motor. This becomes possible because motors and generators/alternators work on the same principles.

DC motors are not ideal for wind power, but there are many permanent magnet ones about cheap on the surplus market that are a good starting point for small installations. Their virtue is that they are redundant to their original purpose and therefore cheap ( or were until some folks grasped this concept).

The amtec that you are trying to replace was a costly item in its day and you would not have been buying them for this sort of job. There are modern equivalent servo motors that are even better but again you will not afford them to play with wind power. In 20 years time you may get them for peanuts on ebay when the things they are used in are scrapped.

Similarly ac motors are far from ideal windmill alternators and to buy one new would be questionable but they are so common that you can usually get a surplus one cheap. They need modifying with costly neo magnets and it may not be an ideal first time project.

If you have little experience or facilities then I feel that it is easier to build an air gap dual rotor alternator from scratch than convert a motor, there is so much information on it and if you follow something from our hosts or Hugh Piggott then you can't go wrong.

If you are in a remote place or have some special reasons for wind power then you can invest more in the project, knowing that you will get a good return. If it is a fun project and you have grid power you will never save any money unless you scrounge the components and not pay the true price. For this reason it is better to learn which types of motor can be used directly and how to choose them.

Amtecs happen to be a good and common choice because they were used in large quantities in early tape drives, they are now basically scrap unless someone can cash in on a new market. The modern servomotors are usually brushless dc and can also make good wind generators but you need to know what you are buying and you need to override the internal drivers.

If you want to consider buying new then I am absolutely certain there are better value Chinese permanent magnet alternators designed for wind generators about at lower prices than new motors and you don't need to do any conversion. The snag may be buying in small quantities as they like to import in quantity.

I hope this has given you some ideas for thought. It is not realistic to ask other people to look at every motor on offer and make a decision that in the end has to be a personal one based on skill, facilities and what you want for the end result. One thing it is certain it won't be free power.

Flux

[niceguy]

TomW: You have got to be the most blatantly power affected board moderator that I have ever seen. Truly you are a rude, sarcastic smartass, and I hope you get fired for it, as you have intimated. People who know less (than you PROFESS to know) come here to learn, and get their faces rubbed in www. tough guy TomW's $#|+?  I can tell you lead a miserable existence, just by looking at your last 5 posts.  Way to help em out TomW, we think you are sooo smart for your smartass degrading comments with virtually no useable information.  After all, it is, indeed, a discussion board, not a place for you to crow and posture as if you are some kind of omniscient authority with disdain for the common folk.  Get a life TomW.

  Yeah, I know this is quote YOUR HOUSE unquote, you seem to be proud of that, so be a MAN, TomW, and do your job or QUIT! Suck it up,man, get control of your pathetic life, and for christ sake quit being such a prick.  Yeah, I know you'll do some awesomely powerful thing, like delete this post, or change my username, big deal.  At the very least, I have the satisfaction of knowing you read this, and, (because you are so much more infinitely smarter than the rest of us) I know you learned something from it.  I can't abide people who can't follow their own advice:

QUOTE Please be nice. Flame wars and rude comments are NOT tolerated here, and the offending comments will be deleted immediately. Keep in mind that sarcastic and cynical comments that you might make in person (with a smile on your face!) often appear to be very rude on a discussion board. UNQUOTE

Indeed.

schwinn;

It is, indeed, a discussion board.

Its not a bottle feeding station.

There is a difference, you know.

In that post you asked:

I am also interested in making my own generator windings and all anyone have a good site that shows detailed ways of doing it?

I provided that and a good set of help documents to get you started in the note on that post.

What did you expect?

Everything you need is here and that document helps you use the resource to best advantage.

So there you have it. Go read that document and you will understand how to post on a forum and get results. Or not.

TomW

Thats a fine fantasy you have there, really.

This post stays, no question.

As will all of your 160 others.

Did you actually read my comment?

I didn't think so.

I never called anyone stupid. You just called me a dope how nice of you!

Been great having you.

Good luck in your engineering career.

I hope Dan fires me, too.

TomW

Ron;

Champlain is in Illinois not Iowa just to be accurate.

Thanks for taking this new "expert" to task. Facts are far more important than arrogant opinions.

I tried to warn him to look around and see who's house he was in before talking trash but he pretty much flipped me off. I don't give a flying fsck about egos I care about accuracy and just repeating it doesn't make it so.

Your serve.

TomW

solar;

Maybe you should have been up front with the limitations rather than use them as a defense after the fact for failing in your ill defined question or mentioning at that time what you now claim "you knew"?

I can change your userid in about 5 seconds. I don't suggest it in this case as the name violates some convention, I am sure.

Remember, you are the one that flaunted "engineer" then for some unknown reason neglected to provide a proper set of project guidelines and limitations that could reasonably be expected from a real engineer.

At this point I think you may be justified in seeking a refund for those sheepskins?

All we know of you is what we read from you.

I am no engineer, I worked for years fixing up circuits after engineers screwed the pooch on designing them. High end Electrical Engineers with yards of degrees, in fact. So I earned my right to scoff at those that wave the title around to cover their butts.

Just to put it into perspective. Much text trimmed to keep it civil. This time.

You spelled "algorithm" wrong, by the way.

TomW

[zeusmorg]

 I'm just wondering,, how does stuff like this further information on RE living? Do you just have to hack away at the moderator? Why bother?

 He's pointed out time and time again that a lot of posts WASTE SPACE, don't ask questions properly, or provide enough information to get a good response.

 Why can't people think or look before asking questions or posting their ideas here.

 "my hamster is really fat, so I figure I'll attach a PM motor to his wheel, do you think i can get enough power to watch the super bowl?"  

Ok so I wasted some space, at least mine's shorter.

[TomW]

niceguy;

Pretty cool first post.

Should boost your credibility immensely.

I truly appreciate the feedback.

Maybe after you have contributed here a few thousand times I will give a rats anus what you think.

Until then I will just figure its easy to judge from the peanut gallery.

I get lots of feedback thru other channels from long term users with equity here that think I am too meek and should kick butt more.

Now, who do I listen to? A new guy with one bitch post or the people that built this place and have a vested interest?

Uh, I know you think you have some right to bitch but it just makes you look like another new user who expects something that will not occur here.

Ok, on to something important like checking the water in my batteries in my RE system I use every day so I can be part of the solution rather than just another part of the problem.

You see, I not only talk the talk I walk the walk.

So how is your system doing on power production today?

KMAMF

TomW

[ghurd]

I wasn't going to say anything, but I drove many miles today.

This was often on my mind.

First, there is no reason to quote the last 6 months of the board.  We saw it.

Taking things out of context, with no understanding of the interaction between those people, who you obviously do not know, is flat out stupid. Again.

Maybe you have been researching long enough to know why Ron calls all those "I" state little, but just are not smart enough to remember.

Maybe don't kick the nuts that feed you?

B: "PROFESS to know"?  TomW always tells it like it is.  Maybe not bottle-fed synthetic-fur no-handguns veal PC, but always good info.

Do you have a windmill that makes ANY power?  ANY power at all?

Maybe a solar panel?

Maybe just a windmill that spins?

People who come here to learn are always welcome.

People who come here to shoot crap about how smart they are, and don't know the basics are not.

Next: "quote YOUR HOUSE unquote"?

Try "who's house".

As in "I tried to warn him to look around and see who's house he was in before talking trash but he pretty much flipped me off. I don't give a flying fsck about egos I care about accuracy and just repeating it doesn't make it so."

Number 4: He is doing his job.

His job is to stop complete crap from being spread on a world-wide respected board.

His job is to delete questions from lazy morons.

And a lot more.  It's all good because he is well compensated. (I hear full dental)

No wait, actually 'we' did fire TomW a couple years back, but we had to re-hire him due to some 1930's union thing the Democrats still enforce, although now he has to inhale 88 grams of asbestos every morning before the ingestion of any coffee.

THAT'S why he is grouchy!

D: It is a lot easier to play expert when you do it on a newbie board, isn't it?

Last: Some guys here are really good on them there new fangled computers!

I'm surprised you think whatever it is you think about the internet being 110% anonymous.  TomW could have booted your lame ass just the same with either name.

OK, end rant, out of my system.