'Dynamic Demand' for domestic appliances

[DamonHD]

(I thought I'd stuck this in a diary entry before, but I can't see it...)

I'm working on my draft document here: http://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-dynamic-demand-value.html

Comments welcome...

Rgds

Damon

[DanG]

Where this could get interesting is incorporating smart "point-of-use tabulation" (POUT) devices into both commercial and consumer devices so a range of additional fees or credits could be imposed on every appliance or process for whatever reason....

[DamonHD]

Hi,

I expect that would happen at the meter, eg some US utilities already charge by TOD, peak consumption, etc, etc...

Rgds

Damon

[AbyssUnderground]

An interesting read Damon! I was reading a pdf file on "cold starting" power stations last night and the need for power to already exist on the grid for them to run, and that not all stations have cold start capabilities. This could help prevent them going offline to begin with because they'd never be running!!! Conservation... thats what its all about.

[DamonHD]

Yep, makes bootstrapping a computer look a little bit easy:

http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Balancing/services/balanceserv/systemsecurity/blackstart/

Rgds

Damon

[DanG]

With POUT the meter would know the difference between staple needs, the basic requirements of healthful living, and luxuries. Basically a RFID system built into classes of appliances, small electronics and systems.

An example a base rate for the household potable water well pump but tripling or higher rate for a luxury spa Jacuzzi-style hot tub water pump - and the meter knowing the difference between the households hot water heater and the auxiliary heaters in the hot tub. The list goes on and on, first ten CFL's are free, a built-in 'ripple' (cripple) control on high demands appliances, blah blah...

Incentives on participating in including this technology on the residential level would have to be legislated; California's wealthy enclaves etc. are likely targets.

I am certainly not enjoying the prospect of POUT - just commenting on it will be interesting!

[DamonHD]

Hi,

I don't think such strong micro-management coercion will be welcome or (I hope) necessary.

But I agree that some sort of pricing or other signals, and possibly rationing, eg kWh/household/month, are needed to make people focus on the difference between "need" and "want", regardless of their personal wealth.

I'm reading Jared Diamond's "Collapse" at the moment, and it's sobering reading.  We've been here before and you don't have to be a greenie hairshirt fundamentalist to see some real dangers.

Rgds

Damon

[dnix71]

My 2 year old Apple computer already has sophisticated power management features that spin down the hard drive and dim/sleep the display when not needed. In the US those features have been built into computers for years. "Energy Star Compliant" is the term.

The power company also has for many years offered small rebates for allowing them to shut off selected appliances whenever they need to. There is a reciever attached to the appliance (usually water heater) that allows remote control. Large industrial users may also volunteer (or be forced) to have their power cut to a/c or specialized refrigeration if there is a need.

Google "electric load management"

[DamonHD]

Hi,

Indeed, and some of those are indeed already the right sort of demand/load management, and I mention them on my page, but I'm proposing that in the UK/EU we should extend them to more domestic equipment, and to smarten up home computers to do things like bring forward sleep mode a little and screen dimming and the other things you mention when the grid is under strain almost as if they were on battery: never enough to be a severe nuisance to the end user, but enough to help keep the lights on without needing to keep a big inefficient generator on stand-by.

Rgds

Damon

[DamonHD]

Well, the National Grid (in the UK) has excelled itself today.  No sarcasm at all.  B^>

I asked NG for a dump of frequency deviations from the nominal 50Hz for a month at 1-minute sampling intervals so I could analyse what sort of dynamic-demand responses should be triggered when (I got the whole of August), and I also asked NG for the frequency data around the time when one of the UK's biggest generators (Sizewell) tripped off unexpectedly and NG supplied that too.

So this afternoon I have a little number-crunching to do.  I'm not any sort of statistician other than ropey/amateur, but I think that even my mediocre skills should be able extract gold from the nicely-prepared data that NG supplied.

For the record it's now publicly available in the XLS spreadsheets linked to from about the third-last bullet in my 'Sources' section, should one of you be mad for it!  B^>

So, thank you NG!

Rgds

Damon

[DamonHD]

Ah, exciting, I have been provisionally asked to speak to these people:

http://www.cibse.org/

in January about my dynamic demand stuff!

Apart from the fact that they are confusing me with someone who knows what they're talking about, it should be fun!

Rgds

Damon