Author Topic: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator  (Read 1568 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hiker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
  • BIG DOG
sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« on: October 27, 2008, 09:08:38 AM »
instead of laying your coils flat--would this work out?????

seems like you could have multiple phases[sets]

with each set having its normal amount of rects--of course this set up would

use more---but there would be more coils under the mags....

if nothing esle it would make for one high voltage single phase..... :}



and i belive your mag rotors would have to repel than attract each other..

« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 09:08:38 AM by (unknown) »
WILD in ALASKA

hiker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
  • BIG DOG
Re: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 03:19:27 AM »
just a note--each coil would wrap around both metal rings with the wood in the center.

the gap in the center helps the mags from cancling out each other...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 03:19:27 AM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA

tecker

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2183
Re: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 08:52:43 AM »
I pretty sure the Spherical effect gets you ,ending up with a pole developing inside the the coils like a dough nut magnet and a scaler burst as the coil charges with no current as the mags pass.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 08:52:43 AM by tecker »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 09:42:45 AM »
This is nothing more than a torus with a lump of wood in the middle. Just leave the wood out and treat it as a torus.


The torus is a good machine if you understand it but a pig to wind. As with all these iron cored things decent core material will cost you more than magnets.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 09:42:45 AM by Flux »

tecker

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2183
Re: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 10:24:56 AM »
I don't think anyone has posted a working toroidal stator or links to one . So it's time to do your thing Hiker and kick one out . I've put a couple of coils in the dual rotor field long ways with some hacked in core segments with no results. I am interested bigtime . The geometry has been speculated here but not working stators  to date that I can find . Much luck going forward. I googled one time and found this for motors. A couple of things about Axle rotors for alternators in patent stages . I think as I said before everything goes to the center and outer perimeter . The toroids I mess with look like dough nut mags magnetically and very little gets in  from the flat faces;But I've never wound in sgments like that .


Article Information


Dynamic performance of a permanent magnet, axial flux, toroidalstator, brushless DC motor

Elmissiry, M.M.; Chari, S.

AFRICON apos;92 Proceedings., 3rd AFRICON Conference

Volume , Issue , 22-24 Sep 1992 Page(s):400 - 403

Digital Object Identifier   10.1109/AFRCON.1992.624507

Summary:The authors investigate the dynamic performance of an axial-flux, permanent-magnet brushless DC drive. The drive inverter uses six power MOSFETs as switching devices. The motor comprises a slotless toroid as a stator and two discs carrying axially polarized permanent magnet poles as a rotor. The permanent magnets are made of neodymium-iron-boron. A mathematical model of the drive is presented, and two cases of dynamic operation are considered motor start-up and sudden change of the applied voltage. Results obtained show that, for a reliable design, special attention should be given to the fact that the winding inductance is very small in this class of motor and the current peak is almost determined by the winding resistance, which is also very small

 

« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 10:24:56 AM by tecker »

tecker

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2183
Re: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 02:51:38 AM »
 There is a spectrum here that devices fit in .If you want a dc choke or a boosting resistive coil you want permeability with sustained magnetic build (soft iron/steel and ferrite).If you want induction between taps , primary to secondary induction etc silicon steel or other amorphous materials .

« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 02:51:38 AM by tecker »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2865
Re: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 03:02:54 PM »
It would work.


With two magnet rotors on opposite sides the magnets should be set up to repel, as you speculated.  The field goes into the toroid at one set of poles and out again at their neighbors.


The metal rings and plywood core aren't what you want.  You should have either no metal inside the torroid or a laminated metal core.  (The field has to turn to run down the toroid and then again to exit at the next pole.  Even with closely spaced magnets this is a rather long "air gap", so a core is a good idea to make good use of the magnets.)


The metal laminates should run edge-on to the poles and aligned with their motion.  So if you use radial magnetic field at the poles (one set of magnets inside the toroid, one outside) you want your laminates to be like a "stack of washers", while if you use axial field (one set ahead of, one behind the stator along the axle) you want a wrapped spiral of strip or concentric cylinders.


Potentially you could nearly surround the toroid with magnets (C-shaped, with a narrow slot for the support and wiring) to get more out of your wire.  But you couldn't do a laminate stack that avoids eddy currents for that.  The best you could do is a core cast of a material filled with insulated magnetic powder, like some high-frequency toroid coil cores.


With continuous (though tapped) coils and a symmetrical core you avoid cogging, just as the air-cored designs do.


A downside is that it's hard to wind coils on a toroid.  Another is that, like air-cored axial designs, you don't get to cut the air gap where the windings are by putting core material through the windings.  Still it looks interesting.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 03:02:54 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

hiker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
  • BIG DOG
Re: sets of 3 phase ---- 2 metal rings stator
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 11:28:06 PM »
thanks for the feedback--just  a idea i had..when i get the time ile give it a try...
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 11:28:06 PM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA